JB v/s SWA

[oldxfr8dog]

All of our engine gauges go to 11.

:laugh: This has to be one of the greatest lines EVER!:beer:

 

[radarlove]

Actually approximately $40,000,000 has already been put into action..

On top of that we currently have approx 93 employees per plane. Airtran has like 65 and SWest has approx 80

Our goal as more new aircraft deliveries come online is to get our number to 83 employees per plane.

From the mouth of Dave and Dave that will save us $100,000,000 per year

You didn't major in math in college, did you?

If you actually saved $40MM this year, JBLU would break even for the year, even after your $42MM loss in the first quarter. News Flash: Not.

If you were to save $100MM, you would earn more profit for the year than LUV. Double news flash: Not.

In 2005, JBLU's TOTAL REVENUE was only $1,700MM and you're telling me that pilot-induced cost savings are going to save $100MM? Twenty percent of your entire cost structure (unfortunately, JBLUs costs are higher than revenue) is going to be saved?

That would send your profit margin through the roof, better than all of the other airlines combined. Not.

Your figures are wrong.

 

[JP4user]

One pays cash for new airplanes..........The other sells new airplanes for cash.

Classic! The true meaning and ramifications of this will skim right over them.

 

[JP4user]

You didn't major in math in college, did you?

If you actually saved $40MM this year, JBLU would break even for the year, even after your $42MM loss in the first quarter. News Flash: Not.

If you were to save $100MM, you would earn more profit for the year than LUV. Double news flash: Not.

In 2005, JBLU's TOTAL REVENUE was only $1,700MM and you're telling me that pilot-induced cost savings are going to save $100MM? Twenty percent of your entire cost structure (unfortunately, JBLUs costs are higher than revenue) is going to be saved?

That would send your profit margin through the roof, better than all of the other airlines combined. Not.

Your figures are wrong.

Don't bother talking facts. Once they get that blue aide through IV you can't tell them anything. Next thing you know the spelling cop will be on here to dillute your post.

 

[SWA/FO]

Airtran has like 65

WRONG - its something like 120 per airplane for Air Tran.

 

[clickclickboom]

Jb Cost Savings

You didn't major in math in college, did you?

If you actually saved $40MM this year, JBLU would break even for the year, even after your $42MM loss in the first quarter. News Flash: Not.

If you were to save $100MM, you would earn more profit for the year than LUV. Double news flash: Not.

In 2005, JBLU's TOTAL REVENUE was only $1,700MM and you're telling me that pilot-induced cost savings are going to save $100MM? Twenty percent of your entire cost structure (unfortunately, JBLUs costs are higher than revenue) is going to be saved?

That would send your profit margin through the roof, better than all of the other airlines combined. Not.

Your figures are wrong.

Understand these are potential savings.. I am not saying that JB came up with ideas to save money flipped a switch and put 140 million into their pockets. What i am saying is that the company has established policies and procedures that could potentially save the company that amount.


Let me give you an example:

Lets say you have 100 planes.

For example lets say that you have 95 employees per plane and if you average the salaries of all areas of the company lets say the average salary per employee is $65,000.

That comes out to $617,500,000 in payroll.

As deliveries come in the company streamlines their employee base to a level that is similiar to Airtran ( Around 65) or Southwest (Around 80) but for simplicity sake lets use the same 100 airplane amount

Now take 80 employees per plane at $65,000 x 100 planes and you get $520,000,000 in payroll.

The hypothetical savings is approximately $97,500,000 per year. Now lets say that the company expands to 200 planes offset the additional salary expense as the workgroup matures and you can see that there is a potential yearly savings of 100 million or more.

Jetblue has a very lean operation but we are overstaffed in many places to deal with the rapid growth that jb has experienced over the last 6 years.

As for the 40 million I discussed above: JB is aiming for over 80% use of single engine taxi, We already use a lower Thrust Reduction Altitude, Enter Updated Winds into the MCDU, Fly at Optimum Altitudes when possible, Use of Flaps 3 for landings, Limit use of APU on ground, lowering min fuel at some airports when the weather is good we are even modifying the jetbridges to allow us to hook up the ground power prior to them being secured on the plane with the door open. That will alllow us to get the engine shut down down anywhere from 60-120 seconds sooner. At $10 per min at idle and a svings of $10-$20 per flt x 146,000 that alone could save nearly 3 million per year!

Now we have just over 400 flights per day..

Do the math that is about 146,000 flights per year

Take $40 million and divide it out and it is about $273 per flight or about 125 gallons of gas. Peanuts when you consider nearly 5000 gallons of burn on a transcon.

I take my hat off to JB We are all aware of where the legacies started out with the quest to save money..

 

[radarlove]

Understand these are potential savings.

Oh..."potential" savings. Got it.

 

[zonker]

It's possible to get more than 12 days off, but you are using your vacation/sick time to do it. That's not exactly "off" is it?
The fact is, if you are a 3 year SWA f/o flying at least 85 hours, you will make the same pay as a JB reserve capt. You will have more days off, unless (oops, sorry! The bold slipped) you take vacation every month.
I am based in LGB and I have never bid reserve.
Please don't throw the "Well, it's your choice to be based there", bomb.

I'm glad you're happy.

Would a SWA person tell me if it's true that SWA reserves get 15 days off (and I don't mean using vacation/sick time) a month?

I've never worked at an airline where you could drop reserve days and get paid for it.

I just got back from a 4th party using a day off that I paid for...but I guess I wasn't really off because it came out of my bank time.

You were saying that a 3 year SWA FO has a better QOL than a 3 year Captain reserve captain here. I disagree. Now would I recommend JB over SWA right now? Nope, but my life certainly doesn't suck. Sorry yours does.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

I've never worked at an airline where you could drop reserve days and get paid for it.

I just got back from a 4th party using a day off that I paid for...but I guess I wasn't really off because it came out of my bank time.

You were saying that a 3 year SWA FO has a better QOL than a 3 year Captain reserve captain here. I disagree.

If you worked for an airline and took vacation time, you have dropped reserve days and gotten paid for it.
All I'm saying is, you get 12 days off a month, not 15 or 16. If you call in sick or take vacation time, it's not the same as getting more days off. I'm glad you had fun at your 4 parties:beer: , but it cost you about $500 bucks in PTO time. If you want to your vacation 2 days a month, fine, but recognize it as such.
As far as QOL goes, the SWA f/o makes the same money and has many more days off. Sounds like a better QOL, to me. As previous SW poster said, even brand new reserve guys get 16 days off and a 95 hour guarantee.
My life doesn't suck, I just get a little wound up:0 ! And people making big decisions need facts about this stuff.

 

[curtaindriver]

One pays cash for new airplanes..........The other sells new airplanes for cash.

I didn't realize SWA bought their planes with cash.........Anyway, JB is a great place to work and my friends at SWA love it as well. But, comparing the two is not quite an accurate assesment. JB is not the same airline nor are they trying to be...It took SWA 20 years to be the size of JB in 6. That is not a point of being "look how great we are compared to you", I hate those jackass comments. It is only to illustrate they are separate, and distinct companies that operate under different management styles and are trying to compete in the best realm that they can.

CD

 

[curtaindriver]

I'll join the arguement with a few modifications.

ATA flies The B737-800's from LAX, ONT, and OAK to HNL, OGG, and ITO, and B757's from PHX and LAS to OGG and HNL. We are full! Matter of fact almost too full. The B757's are, by far, the superior airplane. It is nothing like a B737. Most of these flights, while codeshare, do not connect with a soutwest flight back on the mainland. If SWA is smart they won't even bother trying long, overwater flying with a B737. N. Amer. international? Sure.

B6. That place makes me nervous. Probably showed in the interview, too. No sweat off my back. It probably didn't help that I'm from Texas, live in Dallas, and I'm typed and current on the B73. Also didn't make me too comfortable in their managment meet-n-greet room. Their answers to questions didn't make me feel very confident. I've heard similarly weak answers before. I've flown B6 once. To the interview. I didn't get that warm and fuzzy feeling from them, either. I also sat in the only seat where the TV didn't work. I slid over to one that worked. (Could this be a developing problem here?) Fleet commonality or not, (I mean, how different can one Airbus be from the next, right?) you don't grow as rapidly as JetBlue and give back airplanes that quickly. If B6's intent is to be a holding company, and take the olderplanes offline to lease to someone else who will take care of the management and maintenance, then fine, but that's putting more irons into an already crowded fire. Someone's gonna get burnt.

JetBlue is a fine company. I'm glad there are folks happy to be there, and busting their a$$es to make it work, but I don't think it's the airline to emulate. They got a ton free national press, right from the get-go. Probably helps having George Soros front you the money. They've ordered too many airplanes too quickly, and they have to put them somewhere. It seems that they've hinged their future on the E-190. You're gonna start limiting yourself by doing that. Yes, it flies a pretty long way, but what kind of payload can it handle with any kind of range? This includes freight. The B737-800's can't fly a full load of people to HI and take any kind of freight load. The B757's can! Even out of PHX and LAS.

I'd rather work for a mature airline with leadership and plans, the a maturing airline with uncertain unproven leadership and plans. If Neelemen sticks it out for the long-term, and they still make money with pilots topped on their seniority list, I reserve the right to change my mind. That will be, what, six years form now?

Did you use those same "modification" tactics when choosing to go to ATA.....I'm glad you are nervous for us at JetBlue. I hope those "superior" and "almost too full" 757's keep doing well for you, they seem to be doing a ton of good now.

CD

 

[zonker]

As previous SW poster said, even brand new reserve guys get 16 days off and a 95 hour guarantee.
My life doesn't suck, I just get a little wound up:0 ! And people making big decisions need facts about this stuff.

Right. And in 2 years that guy will still be a first officer and I'll still be a captain. See the difference? No doubt it's a better deal at SWA, but I'm not too disturbed with my lot in life, either.

 

[JP4user]

Understand these are potential savings.. I am not saying that JB came up with ideas to save money flipped a switch and put 140 million into their pockets. What i am saying is that the company has established policies and procedures that could potentially save the company that amount.


Let me give you an example:

Lets say you have 100 planes.

For example lets say that you have 95 employees per plane and if you average the salaries of all areas of the company lets say the average salary per employee is $65,000.

That comes out to $617,500,000 in payroll.

As deliveries come in the company streamlines their employee base to a level that is similiar to Airtran ( Around 65) or Southwest (Around 80) but for simplicity sake lets use the same 100 airplane amount

Now take 80 employees per plane at $65,000 x 100 planes and you get $520,000,000 in payroll.

The hypothetical savings is approximately $97,500,000 per year. Now lets say that the company expands to 200 planes offset the additional salary expense as the workgroup matures and you can see that there is a potential yearly savings of 100 million or more.

Jetblue has a very lean operation but we are overstaffed in many places to deal with the rapid growth that jb has experienced over the last 6 years.

As for the 40 million I discussed above: JB is aiming for over 80% use of single engine taxi, We already use a lower Thrust Reduction Altitude, Enter Updated Winds into the MCDU, Fly at Optimum Altitudes when possible, Use of Flaps 3 for landings, Limit use of APU on ground, lowering min fuel at some airports when the weather is good we are even modifying the jetbridges to allow us to hook up the ground power prior to them being secured on the plane with the door open. That will alllow us to get the engine shut down down anywhere from 60-120 seconds sooner. At $10 per min at idle and a svings of $10-$20 per flt x 146,000 that alone could save nearly 3 million per year!

Now we have just over 400 flights per day..

Do the math that is about 146,000 flights per year

Take $40 million and divide it out and it is about $273 per flight or about 125 gallons of gas. Peanuts when you consider nearly 5000 gallons of burn on a transcon.

I take my hat off to JB We are all aware of where the legacies started out with the quest to save money..

Will your focus groups be using these financial theories and data to talk to the lenders financing your replacement Airbus aircraft? Where does these slick theories fit in with selling 6 y/o aircraft for $20M and getting new ones at $60M per copy?

 

[JP4user]

When the hiring winds up and the musical chairs stop at Blue, how does those 190 rates compare with SWA pay? I keep seeing the A320 talked about but not the obvious Blue elephant that they don't like to discuss. They get mighty testy about that subject when it is brought up. I don't blame them.

 

[Deli Guy]

This message is hidden because JP4user is on your ignore list.

Priceless