JB pilots say no to alpa/Barely

[aewanabe]

Yip, you're an ass. The BPF is a PMA association, designed to cover gaping
Holes in our disability/lol coverage. Go back to your corner, troll.

 

[pilotyip]

FI at it best

Yip, you're an ass. The BPF is a PMA association, designed to cover gaping
Holes in our disability/lol coverage. Go back to your corner, troll.

ah! a little name calling, it so FI. If you are going post in public, you have to expect this freedom of speech thing to pop up once in a while. I wish union dues had been voluntary back in my union days. I would have come out ahead when both companies went out of business. IBT was even nice enought to take dues out of my severance check when Zantop folded.

 

[B6Busdriver]

ah! a little name calling, it so FI. If you are going post in public, you have to expect this freedom of speech thing to pop up once in a while. I wish union dues had been voluntary back in my union days. I would have come out ahead when both companies went out of business. IBT was even nice enought to take dues out of my severance check when Zantop folded.

You don't have a clue about what you speak. You've really stepped on it this time. The Blue Pilot Fund has made 9 generous donations to pilots in SERIOUS need. This is a by pilot for pilot entity. Try having a tall glass of stfu.

 

[pilotyip]

You don't have a clue about what you speak. You've really stepped on it this time. The Blue Pilot Fund has no made 9 generous donations to pilots in SERIOUS need. This is a by pilot for pilot entity. Try having a tall glass of stfu.

ah! we meet again, remember public forum, the ignore function might work well for you.

 

[Dizel8]

Mr.Barger is against any kind of union, in-house or otherwise.

 

[DUATS]

I like the guy who voted for the Major League Baseball Player's Association. Nice....

 

[Fins Up]

I kind of disagree:

"IF" the company and the pilot group ever saw the light of day and TOGETHER created a CBA (with seed money from the company) we could rule the world...or at least our little corner of it.

JB management + JB pilots + Lufthansa's "interest" = serious, serious upside for all of us, but only if all the players have enough "vision" to see this. On this point, I'm not optimistic because most people have their narrow-minded, myopic head buried in their own problems-du-jour to be willing to zoom out and view the entire playing field from above and see all the moving pieces.

Not trying to throw flame here but that is quite a pipe dream. Management has made it abundently clear that they will not support any kind of union; in-house, out-house, pilot, FA, GO, whatever. I don't ever see that changing. I would vote for one though, except IBT.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I would vote for one though, except IBT.

The only thing IBT is good at is collecting dues.

 

[pilotyip]

The only thing IBT is good at is collecting dues.

someone else gets it. Nice touch

 

[sligo1]

deleted

 

[lookin4better]

I have to agree, JB is better without a union.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I have to agree, JB is better without a union.

Glad you're just one...are you at JB?

 

[Lake Alice]

I have to agree, JB is better without a union.

Jetblue is better without a union. Jetblue pilots are worse off without a union. A union would have given Jetblue pilots the ability to negotiate for pay and benefits. The vote sealed our fate. We have no ability to protect ourselves in the event of a merger and we certainly have no chance of ever fixing the gaping holes in our retirement and health benefits.

 

[FBN0223]

JB pilots, go with an in-house union. ALPA will just allow massive outsoucing of your jobs to the lowest bidder. At Delta we have Compass, Shuttle America, ASA, Skywest, Comair, Mesaba, Pinnacle and now GoJet all flying under the Delta brand. Pathetic!!!!

 

[$$$4nothin]

Don't forget Chautauqua

 

[BeachBummer]

JB pilots, go with an in-house union. ALPA will just allow massive outsoucing of your jobs to the lowest bidder. At Delta we have Compass, Shuttle America, ASA, Skywest, Comair, Mesaba, Pinnacle and now GoJet all flying under the Delta brand. Pathetic!!!!

Why not let ALPA allow it... It can happen tomorrow with or without any Jetblue pilots consent or knowledge. Suppose it's all moot now anyhoe

hope "we" were right.

 

[B6Busdriver]

JB pilots, go with an in-house union. ALPA will just allow massive outsoucing of your jobs to the lowest bidder. At Delta we have Compass, Shuttle America, ASA, Skywest, Comair, Mesaba, Pinnacle and now GoJet all flying under the Delta brand. Pathetic!!!!

If you actually work for Delta then you would know it was YOUR MEC that allowed unlimited 50 seaters back in the early to mid 90's. Look no further your own group.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

JB pilots, go with an in-house union. ALPA will just allow massive outsoucing of your jobs to the lowest bidder. At Delta we have Compass, Shuttle America, ASA, Skywest, Comair, Mesaba, Pinnacle and now GoJet all flying under the Delta brand. Pathetic!!!!

What is stopping JetBlue from outsourcing their own pilot's jobs? Absolutely nothing. Without representation and a CBA, one can only rely on hope. Work rules change with a simple email. Time will tell as to what else will change.

 

[Flyby1206]

What is stopping JetBlue from outsourcing their own pilot's jobs? Absolutely nothing. Without representation and a CBA, one can only rely on hope. Work rules change with a simple email. Time will tell as to what else will change.

Why outsource when you could bring the equipment on property and make up your own rates for it? Capacity Purchase Agreements are messy and a waste of time/money

 

[BeachBummer]

Messy, but cheaper. Thats why everyone does it. Or like SWA doesn't do it at all.

 

[Lake Alice]

Why outsource when you could bring the equipment on property and make up your own rates for it? Capacity Purchase Agreements are messy and a waste of time/money

Jetblue is code sharing with every available carrier which in essence is outsourcing. If it is international Jetblue will allow other carriers to do the flying.

 

[Flyby1206]

Jetblue is code sharing with every available carrier which in essence is outsourcing. If it is international Jetblue will allow other carriers to do the flying.

The jetblue code doesnt appear on any other airline flights, but I understand your point. We dont have the equipment, or the network to support real international ops yet. Someday this will happen, and even then it is smart to have strategic codeshares with other carriers.

My original post was in reference to smaller gauge equipment for domestic ops. I was wondering what the benefit would be to outsource smaller a/c if we could fly them ourselves and the company could just dictate the payrates. From a business point of view it would seem a lot more messy to contract another carrier.

 

[Flyby1206]

Messy, but cheaper. Thats why everyone does it. Or like SWA doesn't do it at all.

DAL, US, AA, UAL are the major player in regional outsourcing. Mainly because the mainline labor groups have traded away that flying in exchange for inflated benefits/pensions (which were taken in BK anyways). If we keep comparing ourselves to those carriers in terms of pay/benefits then we will have to go down that same road they have in terms of contract flying.

Like you said, SWA doesnt do it, and they have been a model for airlines to follow throughout the world. I really admire what they have done with their business and labor relations. Instead of contracting out flying to keep costs low, they have relied on a lean management structure, uber-productive frontline employees, and a slow but methodical growth plan. Will that happen here at JB? Probably not to the same level of success as SWA, but I think in some form or fashion we will follow in those footsteps. We are poised to grow internationally (S. America, Europe) much better than SWA, and I think that should be the focus going forward.

 

[Lake Alice]

Jetblue pilots PEA allows for up to 10% asm's for a regional, more than almost any other carrier. (On a side note this was never negotiated but rather imposed since Jetblue pilots cannot negotiate.) Having a regional do short haul flying is cheaper than bringing on the aircraft to do it ourselves. It's only a matter of time. International demand is there, the bookings have shown that but, again, it's cheaper to use alliances and ultimately codeshare.

 

[Lake Alice]

DAL, US, AA, UAL are the major player in regional outsourcing. Mainly because the mainline labor groups have traded away that flying in exchange for inflated benefits/pensions (which were taken in BK anyways). If we keep comparing ourselves to those carriers in terms of pay/benefits then we will have to go down that same road they have in terms of contract flying.

Like you said, SWA doesnt do it, and they have been a model for airlines to follow throughout the world. I really admire what they have done with their business and labor relations. Instead of contracting out flying to keep costs low, they have relied on a lean management structure, uber-productive frontline employees, and a slow but methodical growth plan. Will that happen here at JB? Probably not to the same level of success as SWA, but I think in some form or fashion we will follow in those footsteps. We are poised to grow internationally (S. America, Europe) much better than SWA, and I think that should be the focus going forward.

We are not SWA, we have never been SWA and we will never be like SWA. Most importantly we do not have SWA style management. For those of us who have been here many, many years we were told 2 key points. First, our pay and benefits would be SWA +/- 2% and, second, we would never code share with American Airlines. Look at where we are today.

To date SWA has not desired the international market and therefore code sharing was not a priority. As of late SWA has realized an untapped market and now is gradually pursuing these markets. The difference between them and Jetblue is they will do it themselves. Also keep in mind they have a union and will have to negotiate international code share. Jetblue, again, can and will impose any code share relationship it wants.

The best Jetblue pilots can hope for is to continue growth on a domestic market. Any international flying will not go to Jetblue but rather a code share. If foreign ownership is approved...god help us.

 

[WateryGrave]

Do you work for Jet Blue? What is the basis for your remark?

I do and I say BRAVO superfreight!

 

[Blue Dude]

OK, then, screw ALPA. Now that that's out of your system, what's your solution?

 

[Fins Up]

SCREW ALPA! Glad it didn't go through!

Do you currently operate under a CBA? Would you prefer not to have one and be on your own? I'm no ALPA fanatic but I really was hoping to get a CBA for myself and my pilot group.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

I do and I say BRAVO superfreight!

ALPA is not here. My question for the ALPA haters (and anti-union crowd) is.....How do you propose we secure (and protect) our careers without representation and a CBA?

 

[pilotyip]

.How do you propose we secure (and protect) our careers without representation and a CBA?

When has a union done that at an airline going BK or out of business? BTW Airline and secure career in the same sentence? Isn't that an oxymoran?