JB pilots file with NMB

[waveflyer]

I believe in self-determination, so i'll recognize this is none of my business.
But if you'll let me add some questions.
Don't you still have a seniority list?
Don't you still collectively bargain?
Can an individual pilot negotiate his/her own contract?
Within our industry- can we change companies and gain more pay and responsibility?
So- IOW- it operates just like a union=- except it isn't legally binding to the company?
Be realistic- all voting in a union does is make your agreement binding to the company. Your unity will be what solves your problems. But the question has to be asked--- if you aren't on a merit system- and youre set up exactly like a union-- why shouldn't your agreement with the company not be contractual?
Do you think your CEO doesn't have a legally binding contract?
I learned a long time ago- that if someone is conducting business with you in an ethical way- they are willing to spell out the deal in writing. It doesn't mean you both can't be flexible. But why you wouldn't want a mutually binding contract in any business deal is beyond me.

 

[J32driver]

Hey... Blue Bayou.... I think I just figured something out.... L382... you are one of our handful of C130 Coasties aren't you!!! One of CH's boys... if your not CH himself. At least now I understand the brainwashing.

 

[Fubijaakr]

We have unique airline in this perilous industry. The fact is we have not furloughed when others have. We have not cut pay or benefits when others have-- all with their so-called union protections. If you want to change status-quo, go the path of other unionized carriers, then vote yes. If you want to keep our unique company, ours, we can send a message to the other work groups that we support "our way of life" not JBPAs, then please don't vote.

Legacy carriers were forced to cut their pay BECAUSE of you clowns. Until YOU came along and lowered the bar, the average narrow body pay was on the order of $170 an hour.

Then you guys proved pilots will fly Airbuses for $129. And the legacies used the bankruptcy court to lower our pay to match yours.

So get off your high horse. You guys can brag "our pay hasn't been cut" but that's because you were working for substandard wages in the first place.

 

[regionaltard]

We have not cut pay or benefits when others have-- all with their so-called union protections.

You took your pay cut when you walked through the front door.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Legacy carriers were forced to cut their pay BECAUSE of you clowns. Until YOU came along and lowered the bar, the average narrow body pay was on the order of $170 an hour.

Then you guys proved pilots will fly Airbuses for $129. And the legacies used the bankruptcy court to lower our pay to match yours.

So get off your high horse. You guys can brag "our pay hasn't been cut" but that's because you were working for substandard wages in the first place.

Bullshiite, Jeff.
Airbuses and comparable a/c are STILL being flown for a lot less than JB wages.
I am decidedly PRO JBPA, but your arguement is crap.
What kind of limp-dick union do you have if a 30-airplane non-major can lower the wages of multiple airlines having 10 times the airframes and pilots? Did AS, your airline, declare Ch 11? American?
Airlines will ALWAYS try to lower the bar. It's up to unions to draw the line, set the bar, etc.

Why don't you support the majority of JB pilots seeking representation instead of slamming the whole group?

 

[waveflyer]

yeah- legacy guys have fell for every trick in the book-- started w/ outsourcing, and ended w/ paycuts and pensions stolen

 

[Fubijaakr]

I do support the JBPA effort. And you're right, there are others lowering the bar further (Virgin).

Best of luck to your organizing effort.

 

[OurMoney1]

Praise the Lord you all see the LIGHT.... It's about time.

Dont get your panties wet yet....they still have got to get 51%. JBLU has a lot of pissed off Airways pilots that have soured on the union idea because of past ALPA failures.

Dont be surprised if its close, but let's all hope it passes. I'd love to see you guys with representation, you deserve it. That Donald Burr/David Neelman Socialist Airline crap does not provide for the career pilot. The experiment needs to be ruled a failure.

 

[A350]

Fubi:

In case you are wondering where at least half the JB pilot group came from.....we are the scraps that were discarded under union ruled contracts, by our brothers, without prejudice.

Many of us remember how unions eat their young....and we don't forget easily.

I don't hold a grudge against the brothers and sisters from my previous carriers....it is just business. Just like voting no will be just business!

A350

 

[waveflyer]

I do support the JBPA effort. And you're right, there are others lowering the bar further (Virgin).

Best of luck to your organizing effort.

nice concession--- but i don't concede that VA is the problem anymore than JB.
The problem is 70/90 seat "RJ"'s that used to be called Fokkers and DC-9's and were major airline jobs have now been sold out to "regionals" == if those aren't airliners than neither is a 73 or AB.

The legacy guys sold out- and now there is a Market of pilots for whom VA and JB are a solid step up. You have to recognize the problem before you can fix it.

 

[jetflier]

Remember this, there will always be pilots with big "puppy dog" eyes that will jump on the first chance to fly a jet, big or not, civilian or military background.
In over 20 years of airline flying, I have yet to hear of pilots turning down down an airline in such quantity, that the airline failed before it ever started.
For sure there are pilots with different opinions on the value of their training and skills. My bet is that those pilots who think they are nothing more than a bus driver are the select group who are working for the less desired airline jobs.

 

[Dizel8]

My bet is that those pilots who think they are nothing more than a bus driver are the select group who are working for the less desired airline jobs.

How do you figure?

 

[Splert]

Fubi:

In case you are wondering where at least half the JB pilot group came from.....we are the scraps that were discarded under union ruled contracts, by our brothers, without prejudice.

Many of us remember how unions eat their young....and we don't forget easily.

I don't hold a grudge against the brothers and sisters from my previous carriers....it is just business. Just like voting no will be just business!

A350

Yep the union furloughed you.

 

[waveflyer]

Remember this, there will always be pilots with big "puppy dog" eyes that will jump on the first chance to fly a jet, big or not, civilian or military background.
In over 20 years of airline flying, I have yet to hear of pilots turning down down an airline in such quantity, that the airline failed before it ever started.
For sure there are pilots with different opinions on the value of their training and skills. My bet is that those pilots who think they are nothing more than a bus driver are the select group who are working for the less desired airline jobs.

sure- that and they're looking for what every capitalist is looking for. An opportunity to take a risk and get a reward in the long run. The guys at the top of the seniority list at JB got rewarded w/ seniority. Look at the 1st guys at swa. I agree with their right to compete. To pin all our issues on a few start-ups is completely burying your head in the sand. The idea that they are all unqualified w/ poor pride is also not true.

The problem in this case is that everything is governed by seniority and is collectively bargained. You need a real union if that's how your career is set up.

As for that union- the point has been made... A union does not work if it only looks out for portions of that union. One disenfranchised pilot takes away leverage from the group... b/c they will then be willing to tell unions to F^^k off. And there have been a ton of selfish baby boomers out there willing to sell out gen x and y to delay themselves feeling the pain. And guess what-- they felt the pain anyway.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Yep the union furloughed you.

Eloquence AND brevity. Great combination.