JB pilots file with NMB

[coogebeachhotel]

Who is going to protect your butt when you roll off a runway?

A committee?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez:

I felt the union was FUBAR and after watching several meetings and several "administrations", knew it was doomed to fail from the beginning.

A350

And I agreed.... the problem is pilots want unions to be autocratic and mx-free.. IOW they want the milk for free.... they wnat results without the effort

You are right about JBPA dues... it will need to be at 3%. One reason ALPA dues is 1.95% is because different pilot groups support each other at different times....

Interestingly.. the Airtran pilots are looking for National support..... IBT maybe... or ALPA...


I am not sure how the jetblue pilots are going to make it in the 21st Century. Even SWA is realizing their market niche is going away. They are going to have to play the international market.

What happens if Jetblue gets bought out? What happens when Congress changes Federal law? When ICAO changes policy. JB management is represented by the ATA in Congress and at ICAO, but jB pilots are not.

The next 5-10 years is going to be very defining for the Air Line Pilot Profession. Luckily there is an incoming Admin that will favor us... but in 4-8 years it could change..

There will be a continuing non stop effort by management to turn our profession into a job. Unfortunately JB and VA management are slowly taking away professional status...

You guys have to stop the slide.....

 

[coogebeachhotel]

And I agreed.... the problem is pilots want unions to be autocratic and mx-free.. IOW they want the milk for free.... they wnat results without the effort

You are right about JBPA dues... it will need to be at 3%. One reason ALPA dues is 1.95% is because different pilot groups support each other at different times....

Interestingly.. the Airtran pilots are looking for National support..... IBT maybe... or ALPA...


I am not sure how the jetblue pilots are going to make it in the 21st Century. Even SWA is realizing their market niche is going away. They are going to have to play the international market.

What happens if Jetblue gets bought out? What happens when Congress changes Federal law? When ICAO changes policy. JB management is represented by the ATA in Congress and at ICAO, but jB pilots are not.

The next 5-10 years is going to be very defining for the Air Line Pilot Profession. Luckily there is an incoming Admin that will favor us... but in 4-8 years it could change..

There will be a continuing non stop effort by management to turn our profession into a job. Unfortunately JB and VA management are slowly taking away professional status...

You guys have to stop the slide.....

The Jonestown mentality of some Blue guys is scary. The zombie brigade

F&H is all over this thread btw

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

F&H can pound sand!

 

[A350]

Cooge:

Ask anyone of our pilots who have been involved in an "incident" of some kind and they will tell you the support they received was way beyond expectations....

A350

 

[A350]

Rez:

How is JB management taking away "professional" status?

A350

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Cooge:

Ask anyone of our pilots who have been involved in an "incident" of some kind and they will tell you the support they received was way beyond expectations....

A350

Ask SB?

or

Remember CUN?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez:

How is JB management taking away "professional" status?

A350

Cleaning of the cabins...

The fatigue experiment....

No Code of Ethics...



Do you feel the jb pilots that want a union are being greedy or not realistic..... or both?

What do you think about not having representation on CapHill and at IACO?

 

[PsubS]

Cleaning of the cabins...

The fatigue experiment....

No Code of Ethics...

Cleaning of cabins---that horse has been beaten enough. You do or you don't...the management has not mandated either.

The fatigue experiment---actively pursued by PILOTS (2 in particular, one in charge of Flight Standards and the other on the Scheduling Committee) and backed by management. Approved by the FAA. Scientifically proved (read it and weep) that duty days that last as long as a dual transcon offers better cognitive reactions than a redeye. Period. Take it for what it's worth...if the test was unsafe, then get the FAA to forbid redeyes in the future.

No code of ethics---I do not agree.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Cleaning of cabins---that horse has been beaten enough. You do or you don't...the management has not mandated either.

The fatigue experiment---actively pursued by PILOTS (2 in particular, one in charge of Flight Standards and the other on the Scheduling Committee) and backed by management. Approved by the FAA. Scientifically proved (read it and weep) that duty days that last as long as a dual transcon offers better cognitive reactions than a redeye. Period. Take it for what it's worth...if the test was unsafe, then get the FAA to forbid redeyes in the future.

No code of ethics---I do not agree.

Pursued by a grand total of TWO pilots. And backed by mangement. That makes it OK!!!!

Did you ever look at the actual experient conditions.
Best case scenario. Not real world.

And to top it off the local FSDO signed it off but Washington went BS.......

 

[PsubS]

You missed the point. Regardless of who approved it, it is the management involvement that Res is so against.

Res thinks that the Alertness Management Program was a management failure. I say it was a foolish idea proposed by pilots (more than two, actually) and backed by management.

Yes, I did look at the study structure. It was solid--show me how it was not a valid scientific study. Give examples..Be specific, if you think you can. Bet you can't.

Again, show me how the program was a management failure and I'll agree with Res' proposition.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

You missed the point. Regardless of who approved it, it is the management involvement that Res is so against.

Res thinks that the Alertness Management Program was a management failure. I say it was a foolish idea proposed by pilots (more than two, actually) and backed by management.

Yes, I did look at the study structure. It was solid--show me how it was not a valid scientific study. Give examples..Be specific, if you think you can. Bet you can't.

Again, show me how the program was a management failure and I'll agree with Res' proposition.

All the pro AMP pilots went into the game knowing what they had to do to make the experiment work. If you know what I mean. Hardly an unbiased experiment

Now real world situation

Guy commutes on red-eye to fly a transcon turn.
Delays (deice,winds,fuel divert,mx) add up but hey legal to start legal to finish right?

So that 14 duty hour day turns into 16+

Or how about a transcon red eye turn. Safe?


But you know what bothers us. The fact that we have no say in the process. VC yeah right. Company decides on a whim that this is what we are going to do and if you don't like it too bad.

 

[PsubS]

All the pro AMP pilots went into the game knowing what they had to do to make the experiment work. If you know what I mean. Hardly an unbiased experiment

Yes, it was an unbiased experiment. Show me where it wasn't. I've got the results--you'll want to review the study. I can send it to you.

Still, Res's proposition was that AMP was management's decision. It was not. Show me how that is not true.

A better question--who do you think killed any further action on the proposed change of flight time waiver?

Ahh...jetblue management! Smart move? Sure.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Cleaning of cabins---that horse has been beaten enough. You do or you don't...the management has not mandated either.

The point is if you have an effective representation structure then when the company puts the word out to clean cabins the union stops the "offer" to clean. As jb pilots what would you prefer? An offer to clean or the issue not even brought up....

The fatigue experiment---actively pursued by PILOTS (2 in particular, one in charge of Flight Standards and the other on the Scheduling Committee) and backed by management. Approved by the FAA. Scientifically proved (read it and weep) that duty days that last as long as a dual transcon offers better cognitive reactions than a redeye. Period. Take it for what it's worth...if the test was unsafe, then get the FAA to forbid redeyes in the future.

The point is, when the company signs up with the Feds to do an experiment on passengers the union says no.

Fact is a union would have been able to provide a perspective on the issues....


In house is a step in the right direction, but you've got to figure out away to get CapHill and ICAO representation... JB management has it....

No code of ethics---I do not agree

Explain.

The definition of a profession is one that has a code of ethics.... No code. No profession.

 

[PsubS]

To put a fine point on it, you said that JB management was "taking away the professional status" by
-cleaning cabins
-the fatigue experiment
-no code of ethics.

I showed you that they
-leave it open...and I like it open for interpretation. Your milage may vary.
-had a cooperative part in the fatigue experiment, a PERFECT example of how to work with a group instead of against it
-I disagree...show me where any other company has "ethics" that are in place...

You make a post--now back it up. Don't just add explanatory text about how we need capital hill representation.

JetBlue MAY need a union. But not for the shallow reasons you so callously throw out.