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It now Official ASA will Shrink by 130 Jobs

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Leave the name calling aside and face the facts. Yes, we are loosing some pilots every month, however if we don't swap out the CR7 for CR9 we will have a net lose of 13 a/c. The SLC CR7 drivers are going to have to bid back to ATL. Worst case scenerio, not enough guys leave and there will be furloughs. There is not an accurate way to forecast how many pilots will leave 3-5 months down the road. If 20 are leaving per month great, but that number is not in stone...
 
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Freight Dog said:
Kooter, I don't have a dog in ASA's fight, but this level of thinking has me peeved.

You'd fly 20 more passengers for the same pathetic wage you're getting now? Don't you want a cut of that?

If the answer is yes, then you need to support your Negotiations Committee.

If the answer is no, I'd also strongly suggest applying to Skywest. They fly everything at 50 seat rates.

Let me show you this another way. Continental is the only legacy airline hiring right now, and I'm sure you'd love to get hired there.

They fly B737-700's, -800's, -900's. Those are what's called B737 Next Generation. Same training for all three. I think the -900 has an extra fan switch. Yet, look at the pay difference between the -700 which they classify as a small narrowbody and -800/-900 which they classify as a large narrowbody.

To sum it up, I think you're out of line pal.


BRAVO!!!! Very well said.

Good luck my ASA brothers.
 
I am asking because I don't know, not to prove a point.

The current agreement with Delta/ASA/Skywest? requires 80% of all Delta feeder flying to be performed by ASA. This has been pointed out numerous times by those saying that Skywest can't shrink/take ASA flying from ATL.

My question is this: Is Atkin smart enough to get around this agreement, and has this been his plan all along? No way he could hire/train 2000 pilots to fly ATL if we all walked, but what if he takes it 10-20 planes at a time? Once he has most/all of ATL flying he can advise his pilots of his need to lower pay by 20% or find another job.

Either ASA is bluffing, or we are shrinking, either way I will not vote for a contract that reduces our pay. At least I can say I didn't cave if they end up taking us out anyway!!
 
SuperKooter said:
So now what do you ALPAites have to say for yourselves. You are going make ASA shrink. 120-140 people will be out of work because you can't take the ALPA blinders off your overinflated heads.

There WILL be a paycut on the 70 or ASA WILL lose all of them and even more jobs.

Think about your actions and how it will affect people. A large amount of people may find themselves on the street because of your Lack of Common Sense.

I just hope that strike vote will be a weak showing. I will vote NO and I know many other people will also vote NO. If you lemmings do decide to "Burn The MUTHA DOWN" then JA will shrink ASA into nothingness as it probably should at least ALPA will be gone. ASA days are numbered and its because of the selfish MEC.

Hey i've got an Idea maybe you clowns can walk around like fool in your uniforms (with hat on of course) infront of the ASA building. Thats worked so will in the past.

Sounds like the ideal Mesa pilot! Grow a pair and fight for what you're worth and stop running scared, you are behaving like a child.
 
buscap said:
Mr. Tutt,

I am very proud to work for ASA. I want to work here and I will do all I can to make ASA the best in the business, but...the company must do their part and right now they are not.

We have put up with years of contract abuse and quality of life erosion without any good reason. The things the company does to violate our current contract don't even result in increased productivity. They only temporarily cover up problems created by administrative errors and failure to lead.

Obviously this contarct is not only about compensation and from what I have seen the quality of life improvements in the matched sections are abysmal. With this in mind and thanks to your letter, things are about to change.

Up until now I have been the Union's worst nightmare. I'm that idiot you've seen running upstairs to get the release. I'm that idiot doing 4 degree descents. I'm that idiot who taxis single engine. I'm that idiot who spent the winter not running the APU at Fuel Conservation stations. I'm that idiot on my cell phone, while resetting computers in the avionics bay. I'm that idiot who helps grandma off the plane. I'm that idiot who brings broken airplanes back to Atlanta when I could've broke it at the outstation. I'm that idiot on the radio doing other people's jobs. I'm that idiot who makes things run despite everyone else not caring.

I'm that idiot who takes pride in my job despite the continual contract abuses and contract erosion. I'm that idiot who didn't want to go on strike.

Well Mr. Tutt, thank you. Thank you for showing me what an idiot I am. And please rest assured, Mr. Tutt, knowing that I am much smarter now and will do my job in a much more intelligent manner.

Yours truly,
One of your Captains

Perfect!

DITTO!
 
Hey buscap,

Can I include your letter in the envelope that I send Charlie's letter back to him in?

I'd hate to have your eloquence put to waste!
 
atlcrjdriver said:
Leave the name calling aside and face the facts. Yes, we are loosing some pilots every month, however if we don't swap out the CR7 for CR9 we will have a net lose of 13 a/c. The SLC CR7 drivers are going to have to bid back to ATL. Worst case scenerio, not enough guys leave and there will be furloughs. There is not an accurate way to forecast how many pilots will leave 3-5 months down the road. If 20 are leaving per month great, but that number is not in stone...

Once again Junior. Fly your airplane and let them run the airline. Bryan and Charlie don't tell you how to fly do they? Better yet, ask your Captain to educate you on the airline industry. The 20 per month will continue. UAL is recalling along with DAL and SWA, CAL and FedEx are taking new hires.
 
With all that hiring going on, why are you still here? As I said not CT BL SH nor ALPA can accuratly forecast how many people are going to leave in the next 3-5 months. The only ones they know for sure are those reaching age 60, which isn't very many at this level.

Take some time and do some thinking for yourself. Don't take everyting that ALPA says as law, and don't believe that the company is always just trying to steal your kids milk money.
 
atlcrjdriver said:
With all that hiring going on, why are you still here? As I said not CT BL SH nor ALPA can accuratly forecast how many people are going to leave in the next 3-5 months. The only ones they know for sure are those reaching age 60, which isn't very many at this level.

Take some time and do some thinking for yourself. Don't take everyting that ALPA says as law, and don't believe that the company is always just trying to steal your kids milk money.

Junior, for someone that has just begun his airline career you don't know JACK! The truth is in the middle.

The age will change to 65 in Nov.

And I do not have to chase after bigger airplanes. When you finally grow up you will find the balance of work and your home life. Until then, your still behind me on the list.

And the part about thinking for yourself. I'm a professional. A professional pilot looks out for others, not just himself. If you want to work for peanuts, go to a lower caliber airline. I think Mesa is looking for Captains.
 
Well old timer, things have changed since the good old days of flying around that bandit and gas was .10 a gallon. We actually have to compete for flying these days.

Last I heard the vote was still out on the 65 issue, forgive me if I don't take your word for it. I'll wait for the official word from Fox News.

I do respect and look out for my fellow pilots, even the senior citizens like yourself. That is why I believe we must focus on the issues we can win and those that will keep us competative.

By the way how far are you from retirement?
 
atlcrjdriver said:
Well old timer, things have changed since the good old days of flying around that bandit and gas was .10 a gallon.

Well that old timer helped build this airline to where it is today. This pilot group has fought many battles, and won many. Who do you think achieved what you're getting paid, cancellation pay, deadhead pay, etc. The extra vacation, not just for pilots but all ASA employees, is a good example where the pilots improved things for all the employee groups at ASA.. That's right, we had a max of three weeks vaction, and achieved four weeks under the current agreement. The company then granted all the other employee groups four weeks too as a result of the pilot's agreement.

You can bash that old timer all you want. Words won't hurt him. He's been through more than you'll ever see. It takes a lot more of a man to irritate him. Hope some of this sinks in, unless you're management of course.

Hoser
 
SuperKooter said:
Tell me is there a way I can't keep my 2% of my pay that alpa robs me of? Or do I have to give them my money aggainst my will?

Yeah, put down the glass of kool-aid and fill out an application at SKYW?
 
Rerun

Hi folks, I'd like to repost a slightly edited posting from November 2005. It took a great deal of time to compose and I don't have time now to create a newbie. I feel many of the points remain valid. Thanks, Redan.


On examining the history of labor relations in the US, it becomes clear that few companies in any industry end up with a labor union unless it is richly deserved. Even then, it is seldom easy to win a union drive. Unfortunately, so often management concludes the employees are an enemy rather than an asset. Companies will usually go to any length and expense to subvert labor, particularly organized labor. To the typically myopic view of management, there is little incentive for them to have concern for the well being of employees. Often management will expend vast amounts of resources and energy in their anti-labor efforts. Usually this is at the great expense of numerous other issues which merit attention and would be much more beneficial to their business if addressed. For example the umpteen ways ASA could reduce costs and become more “competitive” through effective leadership and management rather than sticking it to the pilots. (Efficient ramp, modern effective scheduling system, reduction in law suits by proper administration of FMLA, and of course the hundreds of thousands or millions in billings to the Ford and Harrison anti-labor law firm).These battles with labor often become something like a personal vendetta and have done enormous damage to countless companies destroying any and all good will, example: Currently we’re witnessing the demise of any and all respect for and credibility of Mr. Charles Tutt and Mr. Jerry Atkin. Almost universally, management is so out of touch with their employees that they actually feel their actions are justified. And regrettably, labor is an easy target, much easier for management to attack than focusing on other fundamental aspects of the business. We’ve all seen it: management has easy access to the public ear. They are able to put on whatever spin they desire (with the aid of their high priced anti-labor law firm) and they can “cook” the books to “prove” their point. Additionally, it is simply just easier to come up with a black and white, in print “labor cost reduction” there for everyone to see.

Hence, we see why there are numerous firms in the US specializing in “labor relations.” These folks have a book of recipes to follow in attempts to thwart labor. The efforts of companies to subdue labor are mapped out for them by these firms...while generating huge billing for them. As far as airlines go, the pattern has become so predictable it’s almost boring. Labor groups are played against each other. Doomsday scenarios are spun that require labor to give back (to compensate for management’s mistakes and inadequacies if truth be told). The trend is not just to prevent any gains by labor, but to chip away at what labor already has i.e. reinterpretation/renegotiation of existing good faith agreements, or reduction of benefits realized in new contracts. The most common tactics: doom and gloom, divide and conquer. Every effort is made to circumvent the unity of the pilot group. And the sad result, the pilot group almost always caves in. They are their own worst enemy. A close to home example, many counseled the Comair pilots to reject the LOA by management in January 2005, I’ll bet they wished they had listened.

The here and now: Like it or not, this is the situation the ASA pilots are facing. We don’t want it, but our hand is forced. There are many examples of modern management which recognizes employee value and the benefits and efficiencies of everyone playing on the same team, Jet Blue and Southwest are notable for this. Unfortunately, ASA has always been managed with the archaic old school myopic style of decades ago. Some of the dinosaurs have been run out of town, but for the most part the players haven’t changed much. Hence we have to work it the old fashioned way, we simply have no choice.

ASA pilots are a great bunch of folks. We want to be team players. We want be on time, to save gas, to satisfy customers, to make money for our company. Pilots are problem solvers who relish a challenge. But our management (and their expensive law firm) know this well. They have us pegged. They can read us like a book. They can and do use these fine qualities against us...to manipulate us. They know we will play along. We’ll use our cell phone (unreimbursed), we’ll do everyone else’s job to get out on time. And apparently, (they hope) here in soon to be 2007, we’ll be satisfied with a mid 1990’s contract. I, for one, have noticed a bit of an increase in the cost of living since the mid 1990’s.

The greatest asset we have is our unity. If we are unable to demonstrate tremendous unity we have lost. In the science of “labor relations” the primary objective is to destroy unity through any means necessary...any means. Stand by for management to do or say anything to this end. There will be attempts to play one labor group against the other. Anyone else noticed comments from rampers, mechs, etc about the “spoiled” pilots? Threats up to and including the dissolution of ASA will come. These will be creative and will sound valid. But the pilot group must not be fazed. It is all just part of the game...and it is a game. Rather than cave in, we have to call their bluff. Throw it right back in their face aggressively. The ASA pilots have to learn from history. We must play the game more tactfully than our predecessors. We have to play like the first string, like we’re smart and know what we’re doing...not like a bench warmer coming in for the first time. We cannot forget that any truly valid threats levied by our management will come to pass regardless of our contract outcome. If we are told we have to settle for a substandard contract or the company will close, the company is going to be closed anyway no matter what we do. If we are told aircraft will be taken away, and this is truly a valid threat, then the aircraft are going away regardless of our actions. This same scenario has been played so many times now I can’t believe anyone still falls for it. The bottom line: if we remain unified no matter what happens, we will prevail. If we force our management to deal with us, they will deal with us. We must provide the incentive because they have none.

Obviously, I will provide a yes vote with relish. I realize our management is simply doing business the way they believe business should be done. This means we have to deal with them through the few means at our disposal. I refuse to be a party to any further erosion of our career. We truly don’t have much to lose. At this point in time it has become necessary for us to inform Mr. Jerry Atkin and Mr. Charles Tutt they have already won the race to the bottom...we’re already there. Mr. Atkin and Mr. Tutt, please be advised: any further erosion will result in an occupation that is simply not worth having.
v
 
atlcrjdriver said:
Well old timer, things have changed since the good old days of flying around that bandit and gas was .10 a gallon. We actually have to compete for flying these days.

Last I heard the vote was still out on the 65 issue, forgive me if I don't take your word for it. I'll wait for the official word from Fox News.

I do respect and look out for my fellow pilots, even the senior citizens like yourself. That is why I believe we must focus on the issues we can win and those that will keep us competative.

By the way how far are you from retirement?

Fox News? Really deep reporting for shallow minds. Cast your one no vote and that will be it for you. The resolute pilots at ASA will keep you mute.
 
SuperKooter said:
Name calling, thats a pretty typical debating tactic that the thug mentality has and thats what ALPA is a group of white collar thugs. Just like all unions who are nothing more than the mafia.


uuhhh, D'Angelo, is that you???
 
I hadn't thought about that. Maybe he has one user-name for ASA, one for Comair, and enjoys yanking the chains of both pilot groups. I wonder if he has one for Chatauqua.
 
What letter are you guys reading? The one i got says there is a place for everybody,. as in no reductions/furloughs..

What am i missing?
 
atlcrjdriver said:
Well old timer, things have changed since the good old days of flying around that bandit and gas was .10 a gallon. We actually have to compete for flying these days.

Last I heard the vote was still out on the 65 issue, forgive me if I don't take your word for it. I'll wait for the official word from Fox News.

I do respect and look out for my fellow pilots, even the senior citizens like yourself. That is why I believe we must focus on the issues we can win and those that will keep us competative.

By the way how far are you from retirement?
20 years and your still below me chump.
 
Ok Biz, I can also get this info from my ALPA Fast Read, do you feel better now?

Hoser, I am not attacking the old guy, but you have to admit that this industry has changed three fold since his first solo in the piper cub. You either adjust with it or go peacfully into the night.
 
Well I thought you were a barn stormer, 20 years from retirement would put you at an age to be my not much older brother not grandpa.

That is if you retire at 60...
 

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