Is there really a shortage of Mechanics too?

[glasspilot]

Great post.

Pilots are the boss because we write up planes?

Really? So I guess that makes dispatch the real boss cause they tell us where to go. Or maybe ATC is the real boss cause they tell us where to go. Or maybe passengers are the real boss cause they pay us all.

Lear is right. We all depend on each other and none of us can do our piece of the operation without the other pieces.

With that said, would you be willing to wager on a ten person team IQ challenge between pilots and mechanics? I'm not saying there are no "less than genius" pilots or "no super smart" mechanics...but on a whole, averaged out I'd be willing to bet the pilot team would win 10 out of 10 times.

Mechanics are great, they perform a job that is very important and requies skill and attention to detail. But so does a ramper. At least you have a license and are accountable for your work.

No mechanic has ever been sentenced to death for screwing up their job (and they do screw it up...often)...pilots, on the other hand, have been sentenced to death for mechanics screwing up their job.

Do we make more money? I don't know, but we should.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Great post.

Really? So I guess that makes dispatch the real boss cause they tell us where to go. Or maybe ATC is the real boss cause they tell us where to go. Or maybe passengers are the real boss cause they pay us all.

You're mixing apple and oranges. Your comment makes no sense.

With that said, would you be willing to wager on a ten person team IQ challenge between pilots and mechanics? I'm not saying there are no "less than genius" pilots or "no super smart" mechanics...but on a whole, averaged out I'd be willing to bet the pilot team would win 10 out of 10 times.

This is ridiculous. I suppose you think men are smarter than women too, as well as Whites smarter than African Americans and Germans smarter than Poles. Are you a Nazi or what? They all all equal as a matter of fact.

No mechanic has ever been sentenced to death for screwing up their job (and they do screw it up...often)...pilots, on the other hand, have been sentenced to death for mechanics screwing up their job.

Do we make more money? I don't know, but we should.

Another ridiculous comment. By your reasoning all flight attendants should be paid the same as pilots. The fact is people are paid for their worth in terms of supply and demand. Many people have more dangerous jobs than pilots yet they are oftentimes paid less. Risk really has very little to do with pay. Again, it's just supply and demand.

 

[glasspilot]

Did I ever say we were paid more due to more risk? No. It just happened to be the next paragraph. I even separated it with a space to make it more apparent.

As far as whites smarter than blacks and men smarter than women nonsense that you spoke of: I didn't say or do I believe any of that. You said it, so the seeds of that line of logic must be present with you...not me.

I'm here to tell you that I've been an electronic technician, chasing electrons through a schematic to find a faulty IC chip or diode or whatever and also fixed the mechanical systems like heat exchangers and cooling units to keep those electrons cool. Being a pilot is much harder by contrast.

Fixing the equipment requires following the manual. Putting a specified part in a specified place in a specified way. It's all spelled out. Being a pilot requires doing exactly that too, but we also have to be able to go outside the box to search for a solution that has no published answer to get the job done. Plus, we can seldom go consult, call a manufacturer, supervisor or whoever. We are there and have to get the job done by ourselves with very little help from the outside. You have all the help and support that you want from everyone from your supervisor to the manufacturer if needed to figure out how to make it happen.

That's why we make more. Not because we write up your work orders.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

That's why we make more. Not because we write up your work orders.

You seem to think I am a professional mechanic. I never said that so I assume you think that simply because I have chosen to defend the mechanics. The fact is that I have 42 years in aviation as a full time pilot and a few yeas as a part time mechanic. Yes, I know how easy it is to be a pilot and how much fun it is too. Yes, I also know how hard it is to be a mechanic. I know the demands of each job. I have no interest in being a mechanic because their work is very difficult physically as well as mentally, to say nothing of the pressures of knowing that oversights in AD research or mistakes by prior mechanics can result in a total loss of their careers as well as law suits and then having the FAA trying to crucify them. The fact is that a mechanic can do everything to the best of any human's ability and there are still going to be errors that could be found in the records showing that something wasn't done properly or was omitted. Every mechanic knows this but they still live with this reality.

So the bottom line is that I choose the easier job of being a pilot. And yes, that means I have the greatest of respect for those who choose to be aircraft mechanics. God less the mechanics and the pilots too.

 

[pipejockey]

And his point about a 4 year degree being inconsequential to the development of a pilot, he is absolutely correct. Hiring concerns for a major airline are a totally tangential argument.

May I ask if having a 4 year degree is also inconsequential to the development of a mechanic? And also, what do you think the chances are of getting hired by a Major Airline without a 4 year degree? I'd say less than 10%. And as I said before, if you were to poll everybody who got into this profession as to what their career goal would ultimately be, over 90% would tell you that they would want to be at a Major Airline. So tangential or not, pilots NEED a 4 year degree to meet their initial career goals, while a mechanic does not.

Avbug is a knowledgable person, with a broad skill set and is a good mechanic, and an experienced pilot too.

I bet there is a good chance he may have even given Barrack that fancy haircut too!

 

[pipejockey]

Aircraft mechanics are the most under-appreciated FAA certificate holders. They should be paid the most for their skill and responsibility but are usually paid the least.

Instead of bickering back and forth over nickel and dimes, why doesn't everybody direct their rage at the REAL criminals! Upper management and those in the executive offices. They are blood suckers, no different than a common leach. They all get rich off the backs of labor which includes pilots and mechanics as well. Those trolls ought to have their compensation packages reduced by 50% and bonuses ended! After all, our pensions were all ended and we took 50% pay cuts. In the 1970's the average CEO was compensated 40 times greater than his average labor, now he is compensated 400 times. Why?? Because we have let it happen! Their jobs aren't so much more difficult today while ours are so much easier are they?

And for all you supply and demand slaves out there, back in the 70's you actually had to attend a place of higher learning, whose acceptance standards were much greater back then resulting in fewer people with BA's and MBA's than we have today. Now with all the online degree programs, people with BA's and MBA's are a dime a dozen. Just log on to your computer, and from the comfort of your own home, some time later out comes a cookie cutter degree.

This is because the pilot is in the position to give the work orders. After a flight it is the pilot who writes up the maintenance discrepancies in the log. That makes him the boss since he/she gives the orders, so to speak. It isn't fair but that's just the way things work out. but even then since pilots are always in the position of giving the orders, pilots will maintain a higher position in terms of the pecking order. And it is the pecking order that usually determines pay.

So why would anyone become a mechanic compared to being a pilot when it is the pilot who gets all the glory, the girls and the pay?

Year 2010, I would like to introduce you to year 1975! Isn't she a beauty? You don't see years like 1975 anymore do you 2010?

What did you say 2010? Oh of course!! Well who wouldn't want to get a piece of a** like 1975, they just don't make em' like her anymore!

 

[avbug]

I bet there is a good chance he may have even given Barrack that fancy haircut too!

Wow: you really never run out of witty, intellectual comments that uplift and contribute to the thread, do you? From physical threats to haircuts, wild guesses and outright lies, you're leading the pack in the lack-of-credibility department.

You are not smart and I'm done with this.

Apparently when you say "I'm done with this," you really mean "I'm done with this, but not really done with this." You're not actually done with this, are you?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Year 2010, I would like to introduce you to year 1975! Isn't she a beauty? You don't see years like 1975 anymore do you 2010?

What did you say 2010? Oh of course!! Well who wouldn't want to get a piece of a** like 1975, they just don't make em' like her anymore!

Pipejockey: What is the relevance of this comment? Yes, 1975 is different than 2010. So what?

 

[lineflyer1]

That's a very good answer.
---
Regarding the general theme of the rest of your post:
You're correct that A&P's can work on any type of plane. I think common sense dictates that the A&P should receive training on significantly different types, however. You would know better than I, though.

I also think that a type is required because a pilot cannot pull over and consult a manual in the same way an A&P can stop working and consult diagrams. I appreciate the work A&P's do. It's vital to the industry. But to insinuate that A&P's are "better" than pilots is just a waste of time. The work both do is not hard. It may be time consuming, but it's not intellectually taxing.

I know a few A&P's who should never become pilots (just as we probably both know a few pilots who should stay away from a MX hangar!).

Hey AVBUG,

I support you 110%! I too know both sides of the fence also. I am an airline pilot and I was an A&P working in line maintenance for 13 years.

ACpilot, I know of mechanics that should stay away from the hangar as well! But then again I know pilots that should not be allowed near airplanes too.

Pilots do have a manual. It is called the QRH. Pilot has a problem, pull out the QRH. Step by step on how to deal with it. Are some problems not there? Sure, thats what the radio and maintenance control is for. Are some problems so urgent that there is no time to talk or open a book? Sure but those are very rare.

All these arguments are absurd.

Both have the responsibility of ensuring the airplane gets from point A to B safely. It's the safety of the airplane that matters, then the safety of the passsengers is a byproduct of that.

A pilot's level responsibilty does not change with passenger count, a pilots responsibility is to get the airplane from A-B safely! Period.

I have seen pilots argue that if they make a mistake, people die! Pilots make mistakes all the time and nobody dies from them or even gets injured. Can pilots make a mistake that kills people? Yes and they do! Pilot error is the most common cause of crashes.

Can a mechanic make a mistake that kills a plane load of people? Yes and they do. I don't know which would be worse, to be the dead pilot on the airplane or the mechanic who now has to deal with the fact that he killed a plane load of people and now has to deal with the depression that would bring or possibly end up dead just like the pilot on the plane.

By the way, have any of you heard about the Air France Concorde crash? Guess what, the mechanics are on trial who worked on the CAL airplane part that fell off and caused the crash. Mechanics are starting to held liable just like pilots.

Can a pilot do things to an airplane that make a mechanic has to deal with? Certainly! Can a mechanic screw up and do things to an airplane that the pilot has to deal with? Certainly!

I know pilots who are idiots, I know mechanics who are idiots.

Lets face it, one can get the qualifications to be an airline pilot in 1 year start to finish. A 4 year college degreee is not required. An A&P, two years.

It takes many years for a mechanic to become good, decades to become excellent. It takes a pilot a whole lot less time to become good or excellent.

In the end we are all jointly responsible for the safety of the aircraft. Flight attendant,dispatcher, baggage handler, mechanic, pilot. For anyone person to devalue the important part that any one of us play is just arrogant.

I know flight attendants that earn more than mechanics, I know mechanics that earn more than pilots. So ya'll quit your bitchn and become a flight attendant!

Face it, this industry is screwed up. Corportate America is screwed up and values nothing except the bottom line.

Lebron James is paid millions of dollars a year, not because of the responsibilty he bears, but because ot the revenue his skill can generate.

We are no different, we are paid what management believes our skills are worth. The trouble is management has gotten us to believe over the years that our skills are worth so little and none of us are willing to stop working and show them how much our skills are actually worth.

 

[nickgutnick]

This is a fun intereweb sword fight, isn't it? You people need to relax. Quit taking yourselves so seriously..............btw, my skills are apparently worth more than the pilots at my airline....nanna nanna boo boo