Is there really a shortage of Mechanics too?

[75 Driver]

The easiest thing I do is fly airplanes.

The hardest is put up with insecure, incompetent managers. ESP: CEO'S and CFO's

The second hardest is keep my maintenance skills, books, calibration and Inspection / AD compliance records up to date on airplanes that are coming in and out the hanger door.

 

[pipejockey]

I highly doubt we need to worry about him anymore than we need to worry about you.

You mean you DON'T worry about me? I would advise you to reconsider.
Pssst....go look out your window.

 

[Lear70]

Knock it off with the innuendo... physical threats will get you a FI vacation, even implied ones.

That goes for the language as well as the slams. You guys are getting out of hand and the personal attacks are against the ToS. Knock if off.

Pipe, I'm not sure if your post telling people to meet "person's name" is the actual name of AvBug. If so, you *KNOW* that disclosing people's identities is one of the biggest ToS violations on this site, and I'm gonna have to give you time off for it. Will wait and see if AvBug contacts me and verifies it.

Both you guys are fun to read from time to time, and I don't want to be sanctioning anyone, but AvBug stays inside the rules while still debating (as aggravating as he can be sometimes). EVERYONE is expected to do that - the ToS are *NOT* suggestions, folks.

/mod

 

[clr4theapch]

After reading the first half of the thread, I had enough... this is an age old debate as to who has the most worth... dispatchers, F/A's, MX, Pilots.. we ALL have our own set of liabilities and skills that make the flying public happy to go from point A to B..

Avbug, your are obviously quite the aviator and have the licenses and abilities that most folks do NOT have. You have obviously many more ways to provide an income for your family and provide insight to Flight info.. congrats...

Everyone has a point of view, an ego and a license in their wallet to wave around, in the end nothing works without the other, nothing flys without the other and to banter back and forth about the value of each is a "nanny nanny boo boo" contest that will produce nothing but hard feelings..

As a MOD I agree with Lear70 on this matter from the FI stand point.. this was a good thread until feeling started to get hurt, ego's start to fire up and emotions end up on the keyboard.. lets keep it respectful, even if you can agree to not agree...

 

[CRJ's suck]

If you don't like what some anonymous person is saying, use the ignore function. I just used for the first time. It works!

Now go have a beer or two and cook up some tenderloins and sweet corn on the grill. It will make your day.

 

[414Flyer]

Avbug is a knowledgable person, with a broad skill set and is a good mechanic, and an experienced pilot too. I can say that I have met him, and unlike a lot of other people on FI , he is the same in person as he is online. If you like or dislike him online, it would probably be the same in person. FI has plenty of people who act all tough or only have a sack because they are behind a computer screen, and would never talk or act that way in person.

Everyone has their good and bad days, and I have seem him on here be exceedingly nice and helpful some days. And maybe some days he might seem like he wants to argue the color of the sky. But more often than not, he will still be correct. And his point about a 4 year degree being inconsequential to the development of a pilot, he is absolutely correct. Hiring concerns for a major airline are a totally tangential argument.

 

[Lear70]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to,,, sort of,,, disagree with you there,,, yeah.

There's a thread going on the Regionals board that points out the value of a college education, specifically an aviation-based degree for pilots. The point? 90% of pilots haven't the FIRST CLUE about swept-wing aerodynamics; something I learned in my 2nd semester of aerodynamics class.

Is it something that could be taught outside of college? Certainly. Is it? No. The Regionals aren't teaching it. The Majors expect you to know it when you get there. None of them teach it then act surprised when a pilot does something really stupid that *SHOULD* be basic swept-wing airmanship 101.

An aviation degree geared towards flying is an EXCELLENT base of knowledge for pilots and makes them better aviators, in most cases, than the pilots who didn't get that degree, unless they were trained by the military, which makes sure their pilots LEARN that information.

Unfortunately, most pilots haven't the personal discipline to go out, buy a copy of Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators and actually get through more than the first or second chapter. Until they do, I'll always preach the value of an aviation degree for aviation professionals. I'm tired of having to teach this crap to almost everyone I fly with...

 

[414Flyer]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to,,, sort of,,, disagree with you there,,, yeah too

I actually would never advocate an aviation degree, and that certainly is not required in order to learn about swept wing aerodynamics. If you are having to conduct remedial training for people you fly with, well maybe your company should consider teaching that if they are hiring people with no swept wing knowledge. Maybe you are getting someone who had some academic class early on at Riddle, but thats a big price to pay in order to have a chance to take that class.

I have heard the opposite idea, that people that come through Riddle and UND, are often actually much more limited in experience than someone who does it part 61, and I know quite a few who went that route, and who would tell anyone else not to go that way. And they are highly in debt, have a degree that is fairly useless, and have very little actual PIC experience doing anything outside their narrow structured college program.

But then again I have flown with someone who told me how important being on the UND Flight team was to making him a real pilot

 

[Lear70]

I actually would never advocate an aviation degree, and that certainly is not required in order to learn about swept wing aerodynamics. If you are having to conduct remedial training for people you fly with, well maybe your company should consider teaching that if they are hiring people with no swept wing knowledge.

You're talking about EVERY SINGLE REGIONAL AND MAJOR AIRLINE here, as well as every Fractional. NO ONE teaches it; it's one of the things we learned after FLG3701. Airlines have either determined that the extra money and time it takes to teach it isn't worth it from a cost/benefit/risk analysis, or they just don't care.

They may show brief excerpts from the old AA training videos from the early 90's on crossover angle of attack, etc, but no one starts with the basics and works up to a complete knowledge base. It results in pilots who are button pushers, automation-dependent, and have memorized responses to certain critical events (stalls, overspeeds) and understand their basics but that's the limit to their knowledge.

It results in a substandard pilot. It's just that simple.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Aircraft mechanics are the most under-appreciated FAA certificate holders. They should be paid the most for their skill and responsibility but are usually paid the least. This is because the pilot is in the position to give the work orders. After a flight it is the pilot who writes up the maintenance discrepancies in the log. That makes him the boss since he/she gives the orders, so to speak. It isn't fair but that's just the way things work out.

In reality, I agree with Avbug completely about mechanics and their training, work and responsibilities. In time as mechanics become more scarce their pay will increase, but even then since pilots are always in the position of giving the orders, pilots will maintain a higher position in terms of the pecking order. And it is the pecking order that usually determines pay.

That's not fair I know, but for some reason I expect this will not change.

It's funny but in the colleges that have a pilot program and an A&P mechanic program, with each being a 4-year degree program, the pilots always have an attitude that they are better or smarter. Why, I don't know, especially when the curriculum for the mechanic is much harder than the curriculum to be a pilot? The truth is that anyone, including your grandmother, can learn to become a pilot and pass the tests, but that is not the case for A&P school and the practical test. The truth is that in the FAA approved pilot programs it's easy compared to the FAA approved mechanic programs.

So why would anyone become a mechanic compared to being a pilot when it is the pilot who gets all the glory, the girls and the pay? Maybe because it is the mechanic who just loves his/her work and just doesn't like flying that much. People always hope to do what they like in life. Flying or fixing things. That's their choice and they take what they get with the job.

That was EASY! Hit the EASY button.