IS SWAPA the "New" USAPA???? Arrogance abound!

[AA767AV8TOR]

SWA's higher pay is thanks to you? Here's a dose of reality General, SWA pay adjusted for inflation is the same as it was in the 1970's!!! Thanks to you, ALPA has given enormous pay and benefit concessions, which you will never get back. SWA is on top by default, not by design, and no thanks to you.

Ouch!! Sad but very, very true. When will we finally wake up and demand a national seniority list??!!

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Fubijaakr]

Ouch!! Sad but very, very true. When will we finally wake up and demand a national seniority list??!!

I'm with you.

 

[ivauir]

If you don't know, in the December 2007 FAA reauthorization bill, there was in inclusion that said essentially - 'If two merging pilot groups are represented by the same union, the union rules apply. If the pilot groups are from different unions, the formula of the allegheny-mohawk merger must apply'. No matter how much moaning and posturing the two sides here go though, they have to follow the A/M rules. That means a 'fair and equitable' merger - not stapling, not 'hiring when available', and not DOH.

HAL

You seem to have some severe misconceptions about AGM. AGM does NOT include any formula and AGM does NOT preclude stapling. It is simply a process, which was followed in this case.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

You already aren't trusted to fly INTL flying, ............. What can I say? You guys are invincible, according to yourselves....

Bye Bye--General Lee

You are really are piece of work GL with your "I can take it, always have" and we're all just misinformed and childish with our posts but yours are so well researched, mature, and spot on with accuracy.

Oh well, it's tough for us to compete with your tremendous wisdom. I suppose Gary Kelly will just back off his "no deal" unless labor agreement with us and F9 and he will bid for them anyway like you predict.

By the way, I've been sleeping for a couple days resting up after my 30 leg 2-day with a LBB overnite. Did I miss anything in the news?........

 

[kc81900]

Fellow SWAPA pilots,

We are very disappointed the FAPA pilots decided to turn down our SLI offer, and equally as disappointed in the Company's loss in the auction process. It appears that in addition to the labor clause, Republic significantly increased their monetary offer, causing Frontier to go with Republic. Our attorneys in Washington D.C. describe a bankruptcy auction like a "Turkish Rug Bizarre" and there were many mitigating factors which influenced the final decision. Certainly Republic's notable increase in their monetary offer had significant weight on the final decision.

To outline our last offer to the FAPA pilots, we had offered the following:
1. Adding FAPA pilots to the bottom of our Master Seniority List
2. Snap up to the greater of pre-concessionary FAPA pay rates (10% increase) or SWAPA F/O pay rates
3. Indexing pay raises to our Section 6 increases through the fence period
4. Denver Domicile protections for 3 years after the fence agreement

Their counter offer was essentially numbers 2 through 4 plus relative seniority (top to bottom of our list) less a factor of 'X' which they never defined - plus the following:
1. 100% Denver Domicile protection forever
2. $3000/month furlough pay for all of their furloughees forever
3. Health benefits for all furloughees forever (SWAPA values a family of four cobra rate at $1,000/month)

They made no concessions from their offer.

Considering the looming Company-induced deadline of midnight and the vast differences in offers, very little movement was made on either side. Without more time, our differences were just too vast. Our assessment of their offer was essentially "You want all your seniority at our pay rates and benefits." This wouldn't be a win for our pilot group. As such, we left our last offer on the table. At the 11th hour, the Company told us that they would go ahead with the auction and leave the labor contingency in place.
They weren't confident of their success at the auction considering the "negative value" the labor contingency was causing at the legal level, but SWA was committed to our pilots' best interests.

SWAPA did not hear from FAPA at all on Thursday except that they acknowledged some of our communication we forwarded to them. SWAPA made multiple attempts to contact FAPA on Thursday, but FAPA did not return messages or make any further attempt to bargain. Thursday night, the bid was awarded to Republic.


who was being more arrogant and unresonable in all this??? How can a pilot group with 14 years of operation and 50 aircraft demand all that they did. Compared to a 35 year carrier with 6000 pilots. I could see integration when you are dealing apples to apples. This was a windfall grab by F9 and I for one am very pleased in never went through. Good luck with republic let the rj revolution continue. What will A319/20 rates be under republic... probably alot less than your getting now. And your furlough pilots will not get back into the right seat for a very long time and when they do will it all have been worth it monetarily????? The top 10% at F9 screwed the rest of their brothers JMO

 

[ivauir]

And, again you are acting unbelievably cocky. Guess what sport? Your pay rates are THANKS TO US at DL. We brought your rates up with our own pay rate jump in 2000.

Who is cocky? Pay at WN has been flat when adjusted for inflation for 35 years. Believe it or not the world doesn't revolve around Delta.

 

[Quimby]

You are really are piece of work GL with your "I can take it, always have" and we're all just misinformed and childish with our posts but yours are so well researched, mature, and spot on with accuracy.

Oh well, it's tough for us to compete with your tremendous wisdom. I suppose Gary Kelly will just back off his "no deal" unless labor agreement with us and F9 and he will bid for them anyway like you predict.

By the way, I've been sleeping for a couple days resting up after my 30 leg 2-day with a LBB overnite. Did I miss anything in the news?........

It's much easier just to put him on the ignore list.

 

[General Lee]

Who is cocky? Pay at WN has been flat when adjusted for inflation for 35 years. Believe it or not the world doesn't revolve around Delta.

Nobody has EVER gotten the Cost of Living Adjustment. Nope. That never seems to matter. What does matter is what OTHER airlines are getting for the same plane type (737), and you based your pay off of ours. Try to say otherwise, and you are LYING. WRONG......... You got your higher pay scale after we got ours. Thanks for playing....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

SWA's higher pay is thanks to you? Here's a dose of reality General, SWA pay adjusted for inflation is the same as it was in the 1970's!!! Thanks to you, ALPA has given enormous pay and benefit concessions, which you will never get back. SWA is on top by default, not by design, and no thanks to you.

PS - have you ever seen a SWA schedule? You like to talk about 5 leg days a lot. I know they exist, but I haven't seen one in a couple years. 3 legs is an average day. SWA thrives on productivity. It's not about the number of legs, it's about not wasting the pilot's time and the company's money with non-productive ground time. Pretty simple concept, somehow it's lost on most airlines.

WRONG. Your pay was enhanced due to our high pay at the time. There is NO way you can say otherwise, since no pilot pay is based off of Cost of Living adjustments. Nope. They are based off of what other airlines are paying on similar equipment.

And I have seen your schedules. They are VERY productive, but so is my 3 day trip from ATL to Stuttgart. I fly one leg over, and one back for 20 hours in a 3 day. I get a first class meal, a movie, and a short nap before we land, and then after another short nap I get to watch interesting people (babes) walk by the beer garten before a nice dinner. You, on the otherhand, get to fly 5 legs the first day and end up in Reno. If you started on AMs, you always do AMs, and that means another 5 legs the second day all the way towards New Orleans, for another short one. You end up doing 3 legs the last day (one long one), but after the long one you always have a couple more---meaning you are ZONKED when you are done. Hey, work hard--play hard. I used to fly that way in the Regionals.(Commuters back then) Not anymore. If I get tired of INTL flying, there is plenty of domestic flying I could do too--our INTL category on the 767ER in ATL has plenty of 4 day Domestic trips worth 22 plus hours. I recently did an Anchorage trip for the fun of it, had some great Crab legs and brew at the brew pub up there. So, you can keep doing your multi-leg, quick turn trips that are productive. Enjoy it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You are really are piece of work GL with your "I can take it, always have" and we're all just misinformed and childish with our posts but yours are so well researched, mature, and spot on with accuracy.

Oh well, it's tough for us to compete with your tremendous wisdom. I suppose Gary Kelly will just back off his "no deal" unless labor agreement with us and F9 and he will bid for them anyway like you predict.

By the way, I've been sleeping for a couple days resting up after my 30 leg 2-day with a LBB overnite. Did I miss anything in the news?........

Yeah, speaking of bidding, Gary Kelly did great with the F9 bid. Check out what some analyst said about his performance with the F9 deal:

Southwest 'naive'
Critics who watched the process closely said Southwest's bid wasn't ready for prime time. Southwest executives "seemed not to understand the dynamics of the process or the obvious bottlenecks and complexities involved," said industry consultant Mo Garfinkle of Arlington, Va. Southwest "was naive and it didn't know it. It underestimated Republic and its talented management team, and it overestimated the reception to a Southwest bid, especially by the Frontier stakeholders. (from the Dallas Morning News article)


I sure am glad he is so nice to you guys. Maybe he will underestimate you guys too for your TA, and you will make $1 million an hour......


Bye Bye--General Lee