Is Delta a PFT outfit?

[DH106]

It is sad how we have allowed our career to be eroded and disrespected here in the U.S. not even in third world countries and very small outfits worldwide companies would even dream of not providing you with accommodation and transportation during training, but the saddest of all is that some of you are even defending this practice as "business as usual" the industry has exploited 9/11 and the economic downturn so masterfully and for so many years that a new generation of pilots have grown into believing that this is the norm. By some of the responses justifying these practices here I have to say "bravo to management" you have over the years perfected the art of koolaid making

How can any of us not agree with what Dumb Pilot said, above? I'm also amazed at the apologetic, defensiveness of so many pilots when these companies fail to provide all the essential things for newhire training. And, yes, accomodation is essential. If the company wants you well-rested and free from worries, they should provide suitable accomodation. And, it's not like you can live at home during training—you've got to relocate to their training center. It is the company's burden—not the newhire's.

A cousin of mine is a doctor with three years experience. A hospital in Iowa just hired him and is providing him with a $15,000 signing bonus, a pay raise from his current hospital, $500 per month living expenses for six months, and they're paying-off his student loans!!! The only thing they're not doing is buying his existing house in Illinois.

So, explain how any of us can justify that certain professions take care of their newhires, while the piloting profession routinely takes a dump on them? Thankfully, certain carriers like Southwest know how to take care of their newhires.

 

[waveflyer]

Bc we collectively bargain- all competition for labor stops as the only goal for either side is to get a seniority #, and for the company- to management entire seniority list-
It gets very political- whereas your cousin got all that bc he had options and they had to provide that to retain him-

Make no mistake though- accountants and bussinessmen have been attacking all professions effectively - including the doctoring profession

But for us- until we realize that mgmt uses our seniority against us- we'll have trouble-
They are very good at dividing us-
Unions don't work unless the senior look out for the junior- when it works the other way- it's a scam and everyone- including the senior will suffer

 

[johnsonrod]

How can any of us not agree with what Dumb Pilot said, above? I'm also amazed at the apologetic, defensiveness of so many pilots when these companies fail to provide all the essential things for newhire training. And, yes, accomodation is essential. If the company wants you well-rested and free from worries, they should provide suitable accomodation. And, it's not like you can live at home during training—you've got to relocate to their training center. It is the company's burden—not the newhire's.

A cousin of mine is a doctor with three years experience. A hospital in Iowa just hired him and is providing him with a $15,000 signing bonus, a pay raise from his current hospital, $500 per month living expenses for six months, and they're paying-off his student loans!!! The only thing they're not doing is buying his existing house in Illinois.

So, explain how any of us can justify that certain professions take care of their
newhires, while the piloting profession routinely takes a dump on them? Thankfully, certain carriers like Southwest know how to take care of their newhires.

.

Yeah, but your cousin has to live in Iowa. That's a deal breaker for almost everyone else. You know what they say about Iowa, right? Only 2 things to do there supposedly is eat corn and watch porn.

 

[waveflyer]

.

Yeah, but your cousin has to live in Iowa. That's a deal breaker for almost everyone else. You know what they say about Iowa, right? Only 2 things to do there supposedly is eat corn and watch porn.

But have you seen MelissaMidwest??
!!!
:-/)

 

[Quimby]

.

Yeah, but your cousin has to live in Iowa. That's a deal breaker for almost everyone else. You know what they say about Iowa, right? Only 2 things to do there supposedly is eat corn and watch porn.

Paid off student loans, signing bonus, live there a few years....doesn't sound so bad.

Grow up. Not everyone's daddy was a 747 captain and footed the bill for training & school.....regardless of their profession.

 

[johnsonrod]

Paid off student loans, signing bonus, live there a few years....doesn't sound so bad.

Grow up. Not everyone's daddy was a 747 captain and footed the bill for training & school.....regardless of their profession.

He sure didn't have to give me additional help paying for a 737 type to help possibly buy a job. And Iowa sounds great, why doesn't SWA go there? You will be close with Moline, which excites you probably. Yet another benefit from your merger.

 

[DH106]

.

Yeah, but your cousin has to live in Iowa. That's a deal breaker for almost everyone else. You know what they say about Iowa, right? Only 2 things to do there supposedly is eat corn and watch porn.

No offense, Jonsonrod, but you've really missed the point. You can also look at it this way: maybe nobody wants to live in Iowa. But, he's doing it because there's a financial benefit to doing so. The problem with the piloting profession is that we can work at a sub-standard company (or work in sub-standard conditions), and we'll receive no financial benefit to doing so. We often have no choice when it comes to our careers. And, that's the problem—we shouldn't be apologizing or defending that fact. It's a travesty, and nothing more.

 

[Quimby]

He sure didn't have to give me additional help paying for a 737 type to help possibly buy a job. And Iowa sounds great, why doesn't SWA go there? You will be close with Moline, which excites you probably. Yet another benefit from your merger.

GL called, he said you were supposed to be over before noon to clean his pool.

There goes your recommendation letter!

 

[Full of LUV]

Thankfully, certain carriers like Southwest know how to take care of their newhires.

All hail the SWAPA....

Where the he$T$UY were you in the 80's and 90's as SWAPA worked for 75% of the 737 payrates, no retirement (DB type), and no retiree medical care which was part of nearly every other airline operating a guppy's contract at the time?

You SWA apologists have this moment in time to say, "oh look, swa knows how to pay its pilots" bad DAL, bad UAL, bad AMR, bad everyone else.....

If your looking at newhire accomodations as your model then I suggest you open your scope of career renumeration considerations.

And yes, the IOWA hospital paid all that because NO ONE WANTS TO LIVE THERE! Its a competitive world / marketplace and the job bears what one is willing to accept or your union is able to negotiate.

If everyone refused DAL newhire class because they considered them ATL based until IOE, well I guess the policy would have to change.

 

[Truckdriver]

Lumberg likes to remind me that most are scope limited to 76 seats- ie: more 1st class seats- but there are a handful of 84 seaters-
My argument back is that they are CRJ-900's
And unless your willing to let skywest fly airbuses configured to 76 seats- you should shelve that argument

They can't fly an Airbus with 76 seats in it because it weighs more than 86,000 pounds which our scope prohibits. The CRJ-900 is not a 90-seat jet, it's a 76-seat jet and will always be a 76-seat jet when flown for Delta. They are also at the cap for 76-seaters so you won't be seeing anymore new CRJ-900's or E-175's hit the line. They have room for about 20 more CRJ-700's or E-170's then that's it for DCI growth.

The Delta group is a different animal than it was a few years back. There will NEVER be a DCI jet that carries more than 76 people or that weighs more than 86,000 pounds.