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Is ATP on crack

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PCL and Mesa are the only ones hiring.
Not sure if PCL is anymore, but they were in Nov. Mesaba is hiring too.
 
Really? I remembered talking to Christina Sidwell and she said all interviews were cancelled in August. Seems kinda fishy. Oh and don't mind me. I have nothing else better to do at the moment.
 
DYLIN said:
I wish ATP would just go away.

They aren't helping this whole situation.
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Eh I still see a little potential in ATP.

...as long as they drop the "zero to hero" thing and become a real flight school...

Who am I kidding...
 
Salukipilot4590 said:
Eh I still see a little potential in ATP.

...as long as they drop the "zero to hero" thing and become a real flight school...

Who am I kidding...
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I'd agree with that. It runs well, there are just many conflicts of interested with examiners and they barely teach anything at all beyond what the PTS says a student should know.

Most of all I wish they'd quit marketing like they do. Going to 121 with 300, 400, maybe 500 hours is not the norm so stop trying to pretend it still is (that's my message to them, not to you).
 
DYLIN said:
I'd agree with that. It runs well, there are just many conflicts of interested with examiners and they barely teach anything at all beyond what the PTS says a student should know.

Most of all I wish they'd quit marketing like they do. Going to 121 with 300, 400, maybe 500 hours is not the norm so stop trying to pretend it still is (that's my message to them, not to you).
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I couldn't agree with you more man. I would love for them to drop the "In X hours you can be a MESA/PNCL/TSA/XT/AE FO" crap and start teaching students how to really fly. Training up to PTS standards can only get you killed. At least thats how I taught it.
 
Not all postings mean that those pilots were hired at the time they posted. A lot of times the alumni forget to post where they ended up.
 
Whats wrong with teaching to the standard? Thats all that is needed. I for one would rather not have a CFI teach me more than the mins.
 
LAFrequentflyer said:
Whats wrong with teaching to the standard? Thats all that is needed. I for one would rather not have a CFI teach me more than the mins.
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What mins? Competent mins or PTS mins.

Now don't get me wrong...PTS mins are "okay" but I'd much rather teach to the "understanding" level than the rote level. At least thats how I think of it.

Then again what do I know...I only have 200 DG! :p
 
PTS mins. I'm no CFI, hope to be one, as I see it if one teaches to the PTS mins they have taught 'understanding.' At least when I went thru my PPL that is what I was going for and I believe I achieved it.
 
LAFrequentflyer said:
PTS mins. I'm no CFI, hope to be one, as I see it if one teaches to the PTS mins they have taught 'understanding.' At least when I went thru my PPL that is what I was going for and I believe I achieved it.
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Not really. Teaching basic mins equates to rote. If you're told to do something and you can do it just as demonstrated, you've achieved this. Understanding and correlation come later. There has to be information transferred either from an event or another person to help the understanding so one can correlate. Without this, you're a robot and in a real jam when the proverbial fan is impacted with feces.

I bet you learned stalls. But did you really? And what lessons should have been learned through the process?
 
I did learn stalls. More important, I learned how to avoid them by being a diligent, disciplined pilot.

I agree understanding and correlation come later- experience is vital in any career especially so in aviation.

Many times I found my CFI being too timid in flight. I attributed this to his age / experience as related to me. We are a few years apart. However, I had done quite a bit more in life than he had. He may have been intimitaded a bit. It made the experience difficult for both and often I had to take the lead and make important judgement calls.
 
I find it funny that two years ago, regionals were hiring people that could draw an airplane, or make that cool jet engine sound like the airplane in 'Airplane'.
 
They will again - right? Isn't that the cycle. Management at all levels has realized pilots can be made to pay the cost to the extreme.
 
LAFrequentflyer said:
Whats wrong with teaching to the standard? Thats all that is needed. I for one would rather not have a CFI teach me more than the mins.
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&%#$!

I just got a highly hopped nasal flush. It sounds like you'll be great subject matter in learning from the mistakes of others.
 
LAFrequentflyer said:
I did learn stalls. More important, I learned how to avoid them by being a diligent, disciplined pilot.

I agree understanding and correlation come later- experience is vital in any career especially so in aviation.

Many times I found my CFI being too timid in flight. I attributed this to his age / experience as related to me. We are a few years apart. However, I had done quite a bit more in life than he had. He may have been intimidated a bit. It made the experience difficult for both and often I had to take the lead and make important judgement calls.
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Dude,
You got yourself a crappy CFI. You tell the story like your older but you have the attitude of a 21 year old.

BTW, you didn't learn stalls nor was the intent to learn how to avoid them. The standard to is learn how to recover. You should get your money back because they didn't even teach you that.
 
ATP...Has the best ads, and a questionable product. Sure you fly with guys who go there, they'll say it was "all-right." It was all right because it got them the regional job quick. You speed through the program, memorizing gleim books and PTS oral guides. You go with examiners who do the exact same test every time and then you go fly around as "safety pilot" to build hours. Hopefully they go away in this downturn.
 
I'd much rather fly with an FO who went to ATP as opposed to an FO who got their ratings at an FBO then went to "The Stream" or JetU.
 
Isn't it crazy that with as many airlines hiring as there are (not many) that they still choose to hire those without any real airline experience so that they can pay them bottom dollar because they don't know any better.
 
Way2Broke said:
Isn't it crazy that with as many airlines hiring as there are (not many) that they still choose to hire those without any real airline experience so that they can pay them bottom dollar because they don't know any better.
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"Yeah, but dude! I'm flyin a jet!"

Yeah it is crazy and it does bother me somewhat.
 
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undpilot said:
I'd much rather fly with an FO who went to ATP as opposed to an FO who got their ratings at an FBO then went to "The Stream" or JetU.
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What do you mean by Fbo then went to Jetu etc. etc. beacuse, I hope your not knocking local FBO's there can be some shady ones but, I would say you can get some great instruction if you find the right one.
 
Baronman said:
ATP...Has the best ads, and a questionable product. Sure you fly with guys who go there, they'll say it was "all-right." It was all right because it got them the regional job quick. You speed through the program, memorizing gleim books and PTS oral guides. You go with examiners who do the exact same test every time and then you go fly around as "safety pilot" to build hours. Hopefully they go away in this downturn.
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It's a good thing you're just a recreational pilot sound like a kite is just for you. ATP has been around since 1980s. It's a good bet that 1 out of a handful of the professional pilots you see out there from majors to regionals to cargo to corp came from ATP, including thousands and thousands of military pilots who do their civ stuff there.

Either you're one of the idiots who couldn't make it through the program or you just want to flame bait with your post. ATP students do exactly the same quality of training and better only they do it everyday instead of once every 2 weeks mom and pop students do. CFI check rides are done by the FAA. The fact that the program is only 4 months doesn't mean that it's dumbed down, you basically live and breathe flying during those 4 months. You will have no life other than 8 hours of flying and hours of studying. Does the local mom and pop place put two brand new instrument pilots inside a 350K plane and allow them to fly coast to coast?? ATP is a great program but it's not for those that need hand holding, as is the case at airline training events. ATP is not a mom and pop school, they are focused on airline procedures. If you want to be a bush pilot or want to spend hours learning a subject with a lot of hand holding, ATP is not for you. From day one they tech multi crew concept in flying.
 
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CX880 said:
ATP students do exactly the same quality of training and better only they do it everyday instead of once every 2 weeks mom and pop students do. CFI check rides are done by the FAA. The fact that the program is only 4 months doesn't mean that it's dumbed down, you basically live and breathe flying during those 4 months. You will have no life other than 8 hours of flying and hours of studying. Does the local mom and pop place put two brand new instrument pilots inside a 350K plane and allow them to fly coast to coast?? ATP is a great program but it's not for those that need hand holding, as is the case at airline training events. ATP is not a mom and pop school, they are focused on airline procedures. If you want to be a bush pilot or want to spend hours learning a subject with a lot of hand holding, ATP is not for you. From day one they tech multi crew concept in flying.
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Exactly what he said!

Just wish they would kill the ad campaign and crap.
 
ALIMBO said:
What do you mean by Fbo then went to Jetu etc. etc. beacuse, I hope your not knocking local FBO's there can be some shady ones but, I would say you can get some great instruction if you find the right one.
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I am not knocking FBO's. From what I have seen, those that get their commercial and go to JetU, Riddle CAPT, etc. are much weaker FO's than those who have trained at ATP or gone the flight instruction route.
 
Worked at ATP for a short time. gotta say their training sucks. I think they feel they can give crappy training bacause you are going to stay there a while. They are sending kids up for multi private checkrides with 4 hours in the plane. I have seen it and I have seen the examiner bring in 2 different CFI's to help a student during an oral. That's legal i guess, but the bottom line is one of those 4 hour multi students can go fly their daddy's seminole or duchess and be legal. Can't believe the FAA allows them to do what they do. Greed has no limits.
 

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