Don't sweat it man. I was just in the right place at the right time. It's surely not because I'm some super-pilot or anything. I feel blessed to have gotten the experience I have in a short time. I could not have done it without the help of my fellow aviators. Corporate is all who you know, and when you know them. It will happen....just keep plugging along and the right job will open up. BTW, I don't care what job you get, we'll still complain. Can I get an Amen?Throttlebender said:
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flyfastinmy10
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Guys,
Don't worry about insurance or time. Everyone hears the stories of low time pilots getting hired. It happens. It happened to me. I was hired as a C560 Fo with 979 hours. I flew my azz off and upgraded 10 months later. six months after that I was typed in the X at 1800 hours. At 4300 hours I got hired by a major and I'm now back in the right seat only this time it's an A320.
This is not one of those stories that happened 30 years ago. I started flying professionally 5 years ago.
Insurance companies have waivers and allow competent operators to make that call.
Good Luck and don't worry about the GIV ride, they are just looking for basic skills.
Don't worry about insurance or time. Everyone hears the stories of low time pilots getting hired. It happens. It happened to me. I was hired as a C560 Fo with 979 hours. I flew my azz off and upgraded 10 months later. six months after that I was typed in the X at 1800 hours. At 4300 hours I got hired by a major and I'm now back in the right seat only this time it's an A320.
This is not one of those stories that happened 30 years ago. I started flying professionally 5 years ago.
Insurance companies have waivers and allow competent operators to make that call.
Good Luck and don't worry about the GIV ride, they are just looking for basic skills.
Throttlebender
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Flying Illini
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low time
This is not corporate, but I am an F/O on a 727 flying night cargo, hired at 550 hrs, upgrading this summer with ATP mins and 1000 hrs in the right seat, never had a problem with low time, all about who you know and how u fit in. Got a job offer for pt 91 Hawker 800XP F/O, turned it down due to low pay. I agree with the others, I am living proof that you can be hired with no time. Good Luck! If you want it bad enough you can have it!
This is not corporate, but I am an F/O on a 727 flying night cargo, hired at 550 hrs, upgrading this summer with ATP mins and 1000 hrs in the right seat, never had a problem with low time, all about who you know and how u fit in. Got a job offer for pt 91 Hawker 800XP F/O, turned it down due to low pay. I agree with the others, I am living proof that you can be hired with no time. Good Luck! If you want it bad enough you can have it!
XSWANN@240
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Throttlebender
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Throttlebender,
Good luck with your job prospect! Like you mentioned before, alot of finding a good 91 corporate job is networking and being there at the right time and place.
With 3000 hrs, ATP and some jet time you should have no problems.
I recently had a part 135 checkride in a Challenger 604 at F.S. For the ride, I was paired with a young 650 hr F.S. intern as my copilot. I was a little concerned when I was informed of this fact. I was actually surprised when the guy did an excellent job for me. The guy knew the a/c systems, checklists, SOPs, and callouts. I made it a point to tell him what a great job he did and wish him a good career in the future.
(THIS IS THE PART WHERE I'LL CATCH HECK)
Now that being said, there is no way a 1000 hr pilot should be in the right seat of a professionally flown GV corporate jet in my opinion! Most large F-500 departments will hire only co-captians for an a/c. If a 91/135 company is hiring such a lowtime pilot for such a position......they are more concerned about saving money then passenger safety in my opinion.
I previously mentioned that my F.S. intern copilot did a great job in the 604 sim. But there is no way I would put my family on an a/c with him as a crew. (This is a litmus test for me.) When it comes down to it, there is not the level of experience and decision making skills to be considered a profesional flight crew. What if the PIC was incapicitated, there was an emergency, and the weather was down.
OK, let me have it! Am I right or wrong?
SCT
PS- Don't compare military pilots to what we are doing. It's apples and oranges.
Good luck with your job prospect! Like you mentioned before, alot of finding a good 91 corporate job is networking and being there at the right time and place.
With 3000 hrs, ATP and some jet time you should have no problems.
I recently had a part 135 checkride in a Challenger 604 at F.S. For the ride, I was paired with a young 650 hr F.S. intern as my copilot. I was a little concerned when I was informed of this fact. I was actually surprised when the guy did an excellent job for me. The guy knew the a/c systems, checklists, SOPs, and callouts. I made it a point to tell him what a great job he did and wish him a good career in the future.
(THIS IS THE PART WHERE I'LL CATCH HECK)
Now that being said, there is no way a 1000 hr pilot should be in the right seat of a professionally flown GV corporate jet in my opinion! Most large F-500 departments will hire only co-captians for an a/c. If a 91/135 company is hiring such a lowtime pilot for such a position......they are more concerned about saving money then passenger safety in my opinion.
I previously mentioned that my F.S. intern copilot did a great job in the 604 sim. But there is no way I would put my family on an a/c with him as a crew. (This is a litmus test for me.) When it comes down to it, there is not the level of experience and decision making skills to be considered a profesional flight crew. What if the PIC was incapicitated, there was an emergency, and the weather was down.
OK, let me have it! Am I right or wrong?
SCT
PS- Don't compare military pilots to what we are doing. It's apples and oranges.
XSWANN@240
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SCT,
I do agree. There is a big difference between the simulated world of the box and the real thing. There is no replacement for the real world experience. But, if it was you that had that lucky break in the early stages of your career you wouldn't think twice of it. As I am one who paid my dues in this profession I have no objection for others who did skip along. As long they are not cocky about it. Yes, I would think twice about an low time co-pilot in a G-IV but wouldn't blame him for obtaining his position. Think about.... Who does the hiring in a flight department?
Only my 2 cents.....
I do agree. There is a big difference between the simulated world of the box and the real thing. There is no replacement for the real world experience. But, if it was you that had that lucky break in the early stages of your career you wouldn't think twice of it. As I am one who paid my dues in this profession I have no objection for others who did skip along. As long they are not cocky about it. Yes, I would think twice about an low time co-pilot in a G-IV but wouldn't blame him for obtaining his position. Think about.... Who does the hiring in a flight department?
Only my 2 cents.....
Throttlebender
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In general I would agree. There is NO substitute for experience. However, there are those people out there that have a "cool head". You know, those that you can just tell stay calm dury crisis. That's who I want as a second crew member. It doesn't matter if they have 500 or 5000 hrs. It's if you know they can take care of business when necessary. Now, the trick is to be able to regonize them when they come along. I've run across some real bone heads and also across some really impressive people. Have a base line but also be smart enough to see talent and maturity.
Stearmandriver
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Well, I agree that experience is very valuable, but I'm not sure you can put a number on it like that. To flatly say that no 1000 hr pilot is qualified to sit in the right seat of a jet is kind of unfair, I think. I've flown with many fo's that were hired around 1000 hrs, and sure, some of them were a little behind in terms of keeping up with airline ops, but I never really doubted their ability to keep the plane upright and get it on the ground in one piece if I suddenly keeled over.SCT said:
Also, why can't we use military pilots as a comparison? They deal with the same things we do... wx, mx issues, tough schedules etc... plus there's that little combat thing on top of it. If a low time mil guy is good enough to act as pic while getting shot at, why wouldn't a low time civ guy be qualified to drive from A to B?
GearGuy,
I agree with you in that you can not lump every 1000 hr pilot into one "experience level" basket. But I still stand behind my statement that a 1000hr pilot does not belong in the right seat of a Gulfstream, Challenger, Falcon, etc.... An average GA trained 1000hr pilot does not have the experience and skills to be a part of a professionally trained crew in my opinion. (Yes, you can train anyone to raise/lower the gear and talk on the radio.) If a company does hire a 1000hr pilot for such a 91 job, they are more interested in saving money then professionalism and safety of their passengers. I do not see this trend from F500 companies that I've been around.
This is just my opinion and believe me, I'm the first to admit I'm just an idiot line pilot.
SCT
I agree with you in that you can not lump every 1000 hr pilot into one "experience level" basket. But I still stand behind my statement that a 1000hr pilot does not belong in the right seat of a Gulfstream, Challenger, Falcon, etc.... An average GA trained 1000hr pilot does not have the experience and skills to be a part of a professionally trained crew in my opinion. (Yes, you can train anyone to raise/lower the gear and talk on the radio.) If a company does hire a 1000hr pilot for such a 91 job, they are more interested in saving money then professionalism and safety of their passengers. I do not see this trend from F500 companies that I've been around.
This is just my opinion and believe me, I'm the first to admit I'm just an idiot line pilot.
SCT
English
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English,
Like I said before, this is only my meager opinion. And I'm only speaking from a 91/135 perspective. I do not see a trend in the F500 departments hiring 1000hr pilots to fly their company CEOs, executives and clients. (There are exceptions) From what I see from the big 91 departments, most are more interested in safety then saving money . Most seem to be hiring experienced co-captians for their company a/c.
Any thoughts,
SCT
Like I said before, this is only my meager opinion. And I'm only speaking from a 91/135 perspective. I do not see a trend in the F500 departments hiring 1000hr pilots to fly their company CEOs, executives and clients. (There are exceptions) From what I see from the big 91 departments, most are more interested in safety then saving money . Most seem to be hiring experienced co-captians for their company a/c.
Any thoughts,
SCT
English
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I agree. Many of my friends (three in fact) that have recently been hired at top companies have been hired as co-captains. I just don't agree with this statement...
...or this statement...SCT said:
I disagree because I've seen pilots with this kind of flight time as part of professionally trained flight crews. I've also seen several 1500 hour pilots in the right seats of 737s. I might agree on the experience comment, but not the skills part. Skills are easy to learn, it's the experience that might take a while to accrue.SCT said:
Stearmandriver
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Well, I've actually known quite a few with better time than that at a thousand hours... including me. Like English said, there are many airlines out there putting thousand hour pilots in the right seat of jets. I fly with quite a few of them. Are they qualified to be captains? No, of course not, not at that point. But can they safely fly the airplane from A to B? Well sure, why shouldn't they be able to? It's the same darn thing they've already been doing for a thousand hours! So what if it's powered by big fans and has video games up front? It's the same basic machine as that 152 with a recip engine and round dials... it's a freakin airplane. Why make this job more complicated than it is?wingnutt said:easy...how many 1000 hour civilian pilots do you know that have nothing more than C152/172 time, now compare that to the kind of time most 1,000 hour military guys have
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flyfastinmy10
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Flight departments in a perfect world would hire nothing but high time captains. They would pay them very well and take care of them and these Captains would stay forever.
Ask yourself this, Why do they need someone?
Flying a business jet is a good job. Most companies have some nice trips and all expenses are paid. I have stayed in the Caribean on an Island for a week at a time. I've stayed in Eagle, Aspen and Teluride. Been to the beach on both coasts. I've been everywhere in Europe. I now work for an airline and people ask me why I left. Try Being on call 24/7/365. My last year there I worked Christmas day and week. New Years eve and day. Easter, My birthday, and was unable to attend my uncles funeral. I flew 98 hours one month. I've had 22 hour duty days, 14 hour flight days and periods where my rest was reduced to 5 or 6 hours.
This is why a company would hire a low time FO. Business is business. Training is expensive. If you were a high time Captain would you take this position? If you would, I would be willing to bet your not very good. I've flown with a few high timers that should be bagging groceries.
The companies view on this is hire someone that they can keep for hopefully 5 years or more. It will cost somewhere arround 30K to 40K for an initial course, then about 20K per year after that for recurrent. If they get the right low time pilot, they can mold him into a very good seasoned Captain and stand a better chance of keeping him.
The 135 charter business is demanding. mix in some 91 trips to keep everything legal. This is great experience but not a place to retire. There is turnover and oppertunities.
After working here for 5+ years you can look for a corporate job that pays a lot better, takes care of you and requires your higher level of experience. These are the jobs everyone here is talking about. They are also very hard to find or get.
Throttlebender, good luck and let us know what happens.
Ask yourself this, Why do they need someone?
Flying a business jet is a good job. Most companies have some nice trips and all expenses are paid. I have stayed in the Caribean on an Island for a week at a time. I've stayed in Eagle, Aspen and Teluride. Been to the beach on both coasts. I've been everywhere in Europe. I now work for an airline and people ask me why I left. Try Being on call 24/7/365. My last year there I worked Christmas day and week. New Years eve and day. Easter, My birthday, and was unable to attend my uncles funeral. I flew 98 hours one month. I've had 22 hour duty days, 14 hour flight days and periods where my rest was reduced to 5 or 6 hours.
This is why a company would hire a low time FO. Business is business. Training is expensive. If you were a high time Captain would you take this position? If you would, I would be willing to bet your not very good. I've flown with a few high timers that should be bagging groceries.
The companies view on this is hire someone that they can keep for hopefully 5 years or more. It will cost somewhere arround 30K to 40K for an initial course, then about 20K per year after that for recurrent. If they get the right low time pilot, they can mold him into a very good seasoned Captain and stand a better chance of keeping him.
The 135 charter business is demanding. mix in some 91 trips to keep everything legal. This is great experience but not a place to retire. There is turnover and oppertunities.
After working here for 5+ years you can look for a corporate job that pays a lot better, takes care of you and requires your higher level of experience. These are the jobs everyone here is talking about. They are also very hard to find or get.
Throttlebender, good luck and let us know what happens.
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