Interview lunch went well I think

[TAG2]

BigD,

Hang in there man. You are building what is known as "quality time". Single pilot, piston multi-engine, night, wx-IFR, busy ATC enviroment. It builds charactor, experience and sometimes during the tougher moments, faith in God. Stay safe and enjoy!

-----
At a part 91 flight department I worked for a few years back, we had a 1000 hr. FO that the CP was considering for upgrade. He asked all of the Captains what our opinions were. Every Capt. there voted yes, including me. We had all flown with this guy and none of us had any concerns about putting our families on board with this guy as PIC. Yes, this was a small cabin jet and he did a great job. My point is, there are some exceptions.

There are some that would consider me to be low time and inexperienced, but you have to read between the lines. I have been flying mostly part 91 throughout my career. Many operators don't fly more than 275-325 hrs. per year per pilot. That is just the way it is. But, I have been flying corporate jets for over 10 years with no lapse in employment. It's not always the final number in the total time column. You have to consider how they got there.

 

[Flying Illini]

test (I had a lengthy reply but the comp I'm using just crapped out and I lost it all).

 

[Flying Illini]

Here I go again...I'll make a point to copy this reply to an email so I don't have to retype it!
I'll try to recreate what I had down...



gear_guy, I appreciate the response. I was expecting to be jumped on considering how poorly I came across in that previous post.

Just know that your motivation will pay off, but right now you should focus all your energy to being the best F/O a captain could have. The truth is that even though you feel like you are qualified to be captain you really are'nt.

I have always made my best effort to perform my job duties to the best of my ability no matter what my job may be and this is no different. I try my darndest to be the best FO I can possibly be. I'm lucky that I fly with great captains that are understanding and helpful...I needed that when I first started. I asked for and recieved alot of constructive criticism and now I feel that I have integrated and implemented suggestions and ideas with my own ideas to create something that works. The captains seem to think so because there isn't much to discuss on post flight briefings anymore...unlike my early days! I understand my place and I'm OK with it.

Don't get me wrong, I hope to be a captain some day but as of right now, I'm not ready nor am I qualified. I can fly the airplane but so can anybody else with a little training and some time in type. What really counts is the other skills and I'm working on developing those decision making and leadership skills that are so important to be a great and competent captain.

Yes there are captain with 6000 hours that still struggle. And yes you may have to watch them, as I have and continue to do. But I speak from experience when I say, do it quietly.

I look at it this way, if I was in this persons position, how would I want it handled. I happened to be in this position and I still am, I fly with captains all the time who have more time in type than myself and in the early days you could tell that they were watching me, now not so much. They let me make my own decisions and trust me to make the proper ones. It's nice to have come this far...I can't imagine how much farther I can go. Another plus is that the captains I fly with are aware of the fact that I have more time in type than they do and they mention it on the preflight brief. They say something along the lines of, "If I do something wrong, let me know. If you have any suggestions or hints, let me know, and keep track of what I'm doing." They also have asked me, a lowly low-time FO to give them a post flight debrief of their performance. This is the same thing that they did for me when I was new and now they are asking me for help. It's very flattering. But I don't let it go to my head. These people are still far superior to myself in abilities. I may have more time in type than they do but I don't place much significance on being able to fly the airplane better because in a few more months these people will have gained more experience and eventually, they will fly it as well as I do. Yet I still won't have the captain skills that they posses. That will take more time.

I hope I did not come across wrong but that is my take on it.

You definitely did not come across wrong, I appreciate your point of view!

Ps- Don't ever feel like you have something to prove. That is a bad place to be. Just do your job with a smile. Belive me, everyone knows you can fly that plane good. They obviously already respect you for it. If you want to be a captain, act like one. Don't try to prove anything. And, by all means let the autopilot earn its $

Point taken. Thanks for the suggestion. And I guess I can start letting the autopilot do a little more. The wx at home this evening is supposed to be down so maybe I'll let it do the work tonight!


BigD,
It's a great job and I enjoy it immensly! I was hired on by this company as a BE20 FO (all previous flying was singles and duchess and seminole multi-engine a/c). Little did I know that two months later I would be a DA-10 FO and then one month after that that I would be a DA-20 FO. The -10 is fast, it's sensitive, and did I mention, it's fast?! It took me 3 hrs just to be in the same zipcode as the -10. A few more hours and I was able to keep up with the plane but it took me a good 50-60 hrs to actually be ahead (where you want to be) of the airplane. In the beginning the AP did alot of the work. I took advantage of deadhead legs to handfly as much as the captain and myself could stand (handflying a touchy airplane at FL370 isn't as easy as it sounds). Fortunatly the captains were tolerant and never mentioned that they were getting sick! I admit, the flying then was NOT up to ATP standards. +100, -100 was common then. As with anything though, the more I handflew the better I got. That's probably why I don't use the auto pilot below 10,000! Actually had to fly the airplane out to San Jose last month with the auto pilot inop. The captain gave me all four legs (we had to have fuel stops out and back) because he didn't want to have to hand fly! I'm happy to say that the pax never knew the difference or at least they were too nice to mention it! I consider the -10 the sportscar and the -20 the cadillac...it's very stable and easy to handfly and not quite as fast as the -10.
All in all, I never thought I would be where I am right now but I'll take it and enjoy and savor every minute of it.


Well, it's not quite the same as the first time I typed it but hopefully this one will make it to the message board!

 

[Lead Sled]

I routinly handfly into the FL's and anything below 10,000 on the descent...including low approaches. I feel that if anything, at my low TT I have something to prove. There is more pressure on me to perform than there is on a higher time pilot.

I think that it's time to stir the pot a bit. Personally, I was waiting to see how my fellow aviators would respond to this post.


I was bothered by a couple of points that he made in his post. I am concerned when I hear a pilot say that he has something to prove. Also, one of my personal aeronautical pet peeves are those guys who say that "real" pilots don't use autopilots. These are the guys who compulsively and habitually hand-fly the airplane at all times except during cruise, including all approaches. As professionals, I would like to believe that we can all hand fly all the various types of instrument approaches down to their respective minimums correctly and proficiently without any type of aid - flight director, autopilot, etc. If a pilot can't do that, then he needs to either get more training or change professions - period. The autopilot is designed to be a pilot aid, not a pilot’s crutch.


That being said, our employers spend great sums of money to provide redundancies for nearly every system on our aircraft - multi engines, dual this, triple that, etc., etc. Here's a question. When we hand fly an ILS approach down to minimums, what redundancy to we have in case of "pilot failure"? If the PNF is doing his job is he going to be able to effectively take the controls in the case of a botched approach? Obviously not, and even if he was able to, is solid IFR at 200' AGL and with a 700 fpm sink rate the time and place to be making those types of changes?


My personal opinion is that we should hand fly as many approaches we can, but when the ceiling gets below 500 feet and the visibility gets below a mile couple it up and let the autopilot do its thing. We then become the backup to the autopilot and we have injected an element of redundancy into the operation. In that rare case that the autopilot messes up and gets us sideways to the world, relief is only a click of the autopilot release button away. In the mean time, you've been able to watch and monitor the approach while covering the controls. If it ever becomes necessary, the transition is both instantaneous and seamless.

There are other times when we probably have no business hand flying our high performance turbine-powered aircraft. For example, below 10,000' MSL on VFR days – especially in areas where the are high volumes of VFR traffic. (Like the area around CMI.)


A while back, I had the opportunity to fly with a contract pilot who subscribed to the theory that "real" pilots don’t use autopilots. It was his leg and we were departing one of the LA basin airports. It was one of those “minimum VFR" days and every Tom, Dick, and Harry was out in his little Cessna or Piper. This guy did a masterful job of hand flying the SID and working with ATC. The problem was that he had his head buried in the cockpit flying the airplane and not looking outside. Can you really hand fly your aircraft while maintaining an adequate watch for traffic or are you one of those guys who puts 100% faith in ATC or in his TCAS? Prudent pilots know when to use the autopilot and when not to.


Low-time pilots have a broad range of knowledge; it just doesn't run very deep. That's what experience does - deepens your knowledge and understanding. You don’t manipulate the controls “better”, you just fly “smarter”.

Don't be in a big rush. Besides, you really can't rush "experience". Take your time and don't feel that you have anything to prove.


Sorry, I’ll get off of my soapbox.

‘Sled

 

[G100driver]

Lead Sled: Excellent post. I could not agree with you more.

 

[Flying Illini]

I think that my "I have something to prove" comment has been taken beyond the scope that I really thought it would be. When I said that, it was more along the lines of being up-to-snuff on the a/c that I was flying. Really knowing it, inside and out. Even the stuff that it wasn't important for me to know but if asked, I could have answered. As time passes, the pressure to "prove" something has diminished as the captains I fly with have come to respect my abilities. The "something to prove" comment was more of a, "I need to show that I belong here" phrase. I didn't want to perform at such a level that the captains were going back to the CP after a flight with me and asking him, "what the heck is he doing in that airplane?!" Prove was the wrong word and, rightly so, has several of you concerned. Sorry for the confusion.

As for the handflying comment. I don't subscribe to the train of thought that "real pilots don't use the autopilot." If anything, real pilots know how to maximize the benefits that the autopilot provides through appropriate use. I have used it and I have not used it. It just depends on the situation. Sure I could use it more but who is to say that it was wrong of me to handfly the approaches that I did hand fly? Nothing wrong with using it and there is nothing wrong with not using it...unless your ops specs say different.

This just occured to me, aren't there airliners out there that don't have an autopilot? They have to handfly every approach and they seem to do just fine most of the time.

PS. Leadsled, the "low time pilot" comment about flying "smarter" was very well said. I realize the depth of my knowledge isn't very deep yet...it's like the reflecting pool below the washington monument...pretty broad but not deep. But I'm learning everyday and adding to that depth.

 

[pilot1704]

what company was this!

Hi what company and what part of country!

 

[Stearmandriver]

Hi what company and what part of country!

Do you really expect a guy with an inside lead on a GIV job to post it on the internet for everyone out there to throw a resume at?

 

[AA717driver]

While we're kind of on the subject...

When I'm hand flying, I also work the speed control and heading bug on the MCP. And, frankly, I'm tired of a$$hole safety Nazi's in the company telling me I have to use the PNF ALL the FRIGGIN' time I'm hand flying.

Now, settle down girls, with over 10,000 hours and a VFR day, I'm ok to be hand flying and working those two little knobs. In fact, I can do it with the A/T's off, too...

Sorry for the unrequested rant. You may now return to your regularly scheduled thead. TC

 

[TonyC]

When I'm hand flying, I also work the speed control and heading bug on the MCP. And, frankly, I'm tired of a$$hole safety Nazi's in the company telling me I have to use the PNF ALL the FRIGGIN' time I'm hand flying.

Now, settle down girls, with over 10,000 hours and a VFR day, I'm ok to be hand flying and working those two little knobs. In fact, I can do it with the A/T's off, too...

I know what you mean. You know, they design all those silly procedures to carry the weak, below average, least-common-denominator kinda pilots, and we're both better than that. Real pilots don't need those kinds of rules. Every time I turn one of those knobs while I'm hand flying I feel a surge of testosterone surging through my veins. In fact, I get a real manly high out of handflying and inserting an approach procedure in the FMS at the same time. Crews are for wimps.

 

[Flying Illini]

speaking of hand-flying...

Last night it was my leg back from FLL-CMI in the -10. The head honcho and his wife on board. It was a smooth clear night and we were getting to see the tailend of a nice sunset. Looking forward to a nice relaxing flight home after a long day I reach down to engage the autopilot and lo and behold, nothing, nada, nil, zip. It wouldn't engage. So I had to handfly all the way home at 350. Biggest alt. "deviation" was 110'. Not bad for a 2.5hr flight. When I got home I felt pretty good about myself and why not, I had a good, smooth flight home, I didn't make the boss or his wife sick in the back and I had my best night landing in a while. When I told my fiance that I hand-flew the whole way home she really gave it to me (and not in a good way!). "<sarcastic> Oh so you're a pilot and you had to FLY all the way home?! Wow, I'm sooooo impressed!"

Just thought I would share a funny story.

 

[AA717driver]

Sorry, Tony, I'll crawl back in my hole again. I now realize the way to go is to over-proceeduralize every action involved in aviation. Thanks for clearing that up for me. You saved my life.TC

 

[Brett Hull]

Congratulations guys! You haven't quite done it yet, but you're well on your way to making us nothing more than button pushing computer nerds.

So who monitors the monitor who's monitoring the monitor?

I think in the interest of safety, we need to add a few more monitors in there.

 

[TonyC]

Sorry, Tony, I'll crawl back in my hole again. I now realize the way to go is to over-proceeduralize every action involved in aviation. Thanks for clearing that up for me. You saved my life.TC

Awww, come on TC. You didn't really expect to say "settle down girls" and NOT have someone hurl a sarcastic remark or two your direction did you?

-TC

 

[AA717driver]

Ok, Tony, I'll give you that one. When I said that, I was talking strictly about a couple of people in my department who are always on the phone gossiping about what's going on and getting "all a'twitter" about it.

I didn't explain myself well. If I thought that about people here, I wouldn't be here. TC