Interview lunch went well I think

[FracCapt]

This is not corporate, but I am an F/O on a 727 flying night cargo, hired at 550 hrs, upgrading this summer with ATP mins and 1000 hrs in the right seat, never had a problem with low time, all about who you know and how u fit in.

I agree with the others, I am living proof that you can be hired with no time.

First of all....it's a bit different since you flew/fly -135's in the military. That's not nearly the same as a 550 hour CFI. Second....what company is going to upgrade you to PIC with 1500tt on a 727?

 

[Stearmandriver]

OK, let me have it! Am I right or wrong?
SCT

PS- Don't compare military pilots to what we are doing. It's apples and oranges.

Well, I agree that experience is very valuable, but I'm not sure you can put a number on it like that. To flatly say that no 1000 hr pilot is qualified to sit in the right seat of a jet is kind of unfair, I think. I've flown with many fo's that were hired around 1000 hrs, and sure, some of them were a little behind in terms of keeping up with airline ops, but I never really doubted their ability to keep the plane upright and get it on the ground in one piece if I suddenly keeled over.

Also, why can't we use military pilots as a comparison? They deal with the same things we do... wx, mx issues, tough schedules etc... plus there's that little combat thing on top of it. If a low time mil guy is good enough to act as pic while getting shot at, why wouldn't a low time civ guy be qualified to drive from A to B?

 

[wingnutt]

Also, why can't we use military pilots as a comparison?

easy...how many 1000 hour civilian pilots do you know that have nothing more than C152/172 time, now compare that to the kind of time most 1,000 hour military guys have

 

[gear_guy]

there is no way a 1000 hr pilot should be in the right seat of a professionally flown GV corporate jet in my opinion!

Wow! I guess I should have got another couple thousand hours of c-152 time before I made the BIG jump to jets. Let's face it. It's not rocket science. People put way to much emphasis on Total time if you asked me. Not enough on quality of time.

 

[SCT]

GearGuy,

I agree with you in that you can not lump every 1000 hr pilot into one "experience level" basket. But I still stand behind my statement that a 1000hr pilot does not belong in the right seat of a Gulfstream, Challenger, Falcon, etc.... An average GA trained 1000hr pilot does not have the experience and skills to be a part of a professionally trained crew in my opinion. (Yes, you can train anyone to raise/lower the gear and talk on the radio.) If a company does hire a 1000hr pilot for such a 91 job, they are more interested in saving money then professionalism and safety of their passengers. I do not see this trend from F500 companies that I've been around.

This is just my opinion and believe me, I'm the first to admit I'm just an idiot line pilot.

SCT

 

[English]

SCT,

How do you explain, then, how Eagle, CoEx, and every other regional airline out there is able to train 1000 hour pilots to 121 standards, in Canadairs and Embraer jets? I know for a fact most of these 1000 hour new hires do more than work the gear and radios.

 

[SCT]

English,

Like I said before, this is only my meager opinion. And I'm only speaking from a 91/135 perspective. I do not see a trend in the F500 departments hiring 1000hr pilots to fly their company CEOs, executives and clients. (There are exceptions) From what I see from the big 91 departments, most are more interested in safety then saving money . Most seem to be hiring experienced co-captians for their company a/c.
Any thoughts,
SCT

 

[English]

I agree. Many of my friends (three in fact) that have recently been hired at top companies have been hired as co-captains. I just don't agree with this statement...

But I still stand behind my statement that a 1000hr pilot does not belong in the right seat of a Gulfstream, Challenger, Falcon, etc....

...or this statement...

An average GA trained 1000hr pilot does not have the experience and skills to be a part of a professionally trained crew in my opinion.

I disagree because I've seen pilots with this kind of flight time as part of professionally trained flight crews. I've also seen several 1500 hour pilots in the right seats of 737s. I might agree on the experience comment, but not the skills part. Skills are easy to learn, it's the experience that might take a while to accrue.

 

[Stearmandriver]

easy...how many 1000 hour civilian pilots do you know that have nothing more than C152/172 time, now compare that to the kind of time most 1,000 hour military guys have

Well, I've actually known quite a few with better time than that at a thousand hours... including me. Like English said, there are many airlines out there putting thousand hour pilots in the right seat of jets. I fly with quite a few of them. Are they qualified to be captains? No, of course not, not at that point. But can they safely fly the airplane from A to B? Well sure, why shouldn't they be able to? It's the same darn thing they've already been doing for a thousand hours! So what if it's powered by big fans and has video games up front? It's the same basic machine as that 152 with a recip engine and round dials... it's a freakin airplane. Why make this job more complicated than it is?

 

[flyfastinmy10]

Flight departments in a perfect world would hire nothing but high time captains. They would pay them very well and take care of them and these Captains would stay forever.

Ask yourself this, Why do they need someone?

Flying a business jet is a good job. Most companies have some nice trips and all expenses are paid. I have stayed in the Caribean on an Island for a week at a time. I've stayed in Eagle, Aspen and Teluride. Been to the beach on both coasts. I've been everywhere in Europe. I now work for an airline and people ask me why I left. Try Being on call 24/7/365. My last year there I worked Christmas day and week. New Years eve and day. Easter, My birthday, and was unable to attend my uncles funeral. I flew 98 hours one month. I've had 22 hour duty days, 14 hour flight days and periods where my rest was reduced to 5 or 6 hours.

This is why a company would hire a low time FO. Business is business. Training is expensive. If you were a high time Captain would you take this position? If you would, I would be willing to bet your not very good. I've flown with a few high timers that should be bagging groceries.
The companies view on this is hire someone that they can keep for hopefully 5 years or more. It will cost somewhere arround 30K to 40K for an initial course, then about 20K per year after that for recurrent. If they get the right low time pilot, they can mold him into a very good seasoned Captain and stand a better chance of keeping him.
The 135 charter business is demanding. mix in some 91 trips to keep everything legal. This is great experience but not a place to retire. There is turnover and oppertunities.
After working here for 5+ years you can look for a corporate job that pays a lot better, takes care of you and requires your higher level of experience. These are the jobs everyone here is talking about. They are also very hard to find or get.
Throttlebender, good luck and let us know what happens.