In house negotiating committee at Colgan

[Mr Wu]

I was wrong about the RLA. It's the NLRA that prohibits it but that doesn't apply to us. The following does, however.


Main Entry: company union
Function: noun
: an unaffiliated labor union of the employees of a single company
NOTE: Historically, the company union was one formed or dominated by the company. Such unions have been long held to be illegal.


company union. (n.d.). Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law. Retrieved March 27, 2007, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/company union



Company Union
Labor union usually considered to be very sympathetic to the management of the company where it is located. It therefore may not represent the true interests of its members since it could be compromised by the company.

Company Union. (n.d.). Dictionary of Business Terms. Retrieved March 28, 2007, from Answers.com Web site: http://www.answers.com/topic/company-union-2

 

[70-SS]

Everyone is right that we need change, so istead of paying a union to get us nowhere over the next three years we should give the committee a chance. If it doesnt work then we only wasted a couple of months and then we can bring the union in.

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[suupah]

If the company had good faith intentions of negotiating with the pilot group wouldn't they have already organized a committee to communicate with them long before the union threat? Some questions

1. Does the pilot group get to choose who represents them on this committee or is it the same ten captains (company henchmen) that carry out managements directives.
2. how much experience do the "company appointed" representatives of the pilot group have with negotiating workrules?
3. How experience do they have with drafting rock solid legal contracts that management could not punch right through.
4. If they did come to an agreement would it go to vote with the entire pilot group or would just have to be ratified by the same old 10 captains appointed by the company?
5. What legal obligation would management have to abide by what was agreed to?
6. What legal recourse does an in house committee offer its pilots against violations of the contract?
7. What legal protections does an in house commitee provide?

I personally would like to pick who represents me and I would like a vote in what I accept. Otherwise this commitee is representative of the top company appointed captains and not the pilot group as a whole which does not add up to collective bargaining.

 

[Prop2Jet]

agree. Also, with a union you get free legal help, free medical advice, and numerous other services that can NOT be provided by an in-house committee. I like the idea but would rather pay the 2% for the added services that ALPA provides not because of their contracts etc....

An in-house committee just lacks the credibility and experience when it comes down to it. I am sure everyone thinks that it is a great idea but think:

No federal law protection
No bargaining leverage (besides threatening a union)
No added benefits like legal help if a just in case happens
No medical protection
No uniformity
No options for pilots to appeal i.e. file a grievance
No protection from scheduler abuses
No protection from management abuses i.e. role back your duty times

If an in house committee were to materialize I think it would only prevent a union in the interim. You can only negotiate so much with as little leverage as such a committee has/would have.

Good luck

 

[vectorvictor]

A lot of what is being said on both sides of the pro-con union argument is the truth. The reality is that not much is going to change over the short term with or without a union. However, the immediate legal protection and group representation brought forth by collective bargaining is a necessary evil that will benefit not only the union members but the airline as well.

I believe that the pilot group unionizing was an expected outcome of the sale of the company by managment. I'm not pro-union. Unions protect the weak and sometimes make life difficult for those of us who just want to go to work, get paid, and go on with our lives. In this case however, for our own protection through this management change and looking forward into a period of tremendous growth and subsequent FAA oversight, we have really no other option.

Best of luck to all involved.

VV

 

[Thurman Merman]

Sometimes I feel like I work for a different company than what some of you say. I have no experience on the IAH operation and I work at a base that is relatively left alone.

I'm on the fence, but I do enjoy 16 days off and 85 hour pay credits. About a month ago I was sick flew one leg an called out for the rest of the day. I called the next day to get my 3:45 since I called out sick, and lo and behold instead of getting my sick pay they gave me credit for the whole day, 8:00.

Bunk PC, I have witnessed people that should have probably failed but were passed. My experience with training has been if people need extra they get extra, colgan gives people every opurtunity to pass. I've talked to FO's out of training who said they were given extra time to finish as well as on IOE. Colgan has given FO's numerous times to upgrade.(At least 2 to 3 Times).

The lynchpin is Colgan did this now we are pinnacle, even with that being said I'm still on the fence. I've been here 3 plus years so none of this newbie crap. The reason why the senator is Pro union in the senate and not with Colgan Is that he knows first hand how bad they can be. Either way the best thing people can do is get acquinted with all the facts pro and con and decide for themselves. I'm not bad mouthing alpa but make sure you go over everything they represent, good and bad. They Have been going for almost 80 years they are proffesional and give you info in a glossed covered pamphlet with a wonderful song and dance. But learn their good and bad and make an informed decision either way. Alpa is not what it was 20-30 years ago. I think It is a good thing at the mainline level but I'm unsure at the regional and commuter.

 

[Prop2Jet]

well said Thurman. I guess it is just a matter of time before something changes. Pro or Cons with both. I too am undecided.

 

[suupah]

Of course there is good and bad. And like you said, this is no longer Colgan. We are a publicly traded company now. our boss is the stock price and how much money we make for the shareholders. Their goal is to boost the stock price and sell. i am sure the upper management gets paid based on that.

We are not people but tools in their money machine. I don't like feeling that way and want to have a voice.

This thread discusses whether an in house commitee is a sufficient voice and protector of the pilots interest in a company. Not the old family operatoin but the new one that is impersonal and interested in lowering costs as much as possible to boost the stock prices and their personal portolios.

Our QOL and future is not their goal. We have to stand for ourselves. Who do you think can do a better JOB?

 

[KPNUP]

Almost 6 years with Colgan has taught me enough to know that if you all dont quit all the fence sittin you're gonna find the fence sittin on you. I've seen great pilots get the shaft because they weren't "available" for day off flying. I mean called to HEF and never seen again!

I've been envolved in a pilot review committee at C8 and it worked ok, but because we were in a hub and spoke system. And that my friends is exactly where Colgan is headed. Like it or not...The base that their not messing with as you say will be history sooner or later because no airline (in their right mind) operates in that manner any more.

Again you might want to get off the fence before you find it sitting squarly on you.

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Well I guess you haven't checked in 2 years scumbag.