I'm done. (NWA/DAL)

[Superpilot92]

What I used was something before DAL proposal came out. It is based upon seats avail from each airline, and what those seats are. I plugged in NWA's list when I got it. In essence I have my own excel spread sheet.
DAL's proposal is very close to what ratio by equipment is.
It will not be one or the other, I have stated that. We have already made progress on that. It will probably be near where the negotiations are(rumored--I would not want to get accused of stating something I do not have 100% knowledge of). From what I hear they think it will still be a negotiated list.
We shall see.

Fair enough, both sides are going for whats best for their associate pilot groups and that was to be expected. Its going to fall somewhere between both proposals and we will all have to live with the results. We'll see

 

[XTW]

DOH with tall fences is the way to go. Nobody can bitch about losing longevity and nobody can bitch about a windfall in regard to equipment.

 

[jetflier]

Yeah, but holding grudges (and fences) is what the nw mec is all about. 26 arbitrations in 22 years. All so their bafoon mec can say, "well, sorry guys, but we gave it our best. Its not our fault."

NWA ALPA has never had a lawsuit against the airline or ALPA as a result of a merger. DAL ALPA has had merger related lawsuits ,...from each of its previous "successful" mergers. Lawsuits that were all related to DAL ALPA's method of seniority intergration.

I don't think that the arbitrators believe that previous DAL mergers were all that great, when the NWA/ Republic merger never had a lawsuit against it.

 

[EMBpilot]

... Your new manning rules (2 Capts over 12 hour flights and 2 FOs) will allow plenty of upgrades on 744s..

They didn't have that?? It was 1 CA and 3 FO's, really? I thought it was one of the classy airlines..

 

[DTW320]

They didn't have that?? It was 1 CA and 3 FO's, really? I thought it was one of the classy airlines..

Yes....they did. For years and years....before bankruptcy. It was lost during the BK contract negotiations. Do we need to start a list of what both sides lost vs kept as they went through the bankruptcy process, or should we make blanket statements about "class" based on a single contractual item?

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

And we had it for he 1st augment also. Not just the double crewed flights. Of course, every negotiation since I have been here the company has thrown in our faces that fact. DELTA, amr,cal,ual etc, etc has fo augment(at least under 12 for our esteemed brothers at DELTA) how do you expect us to compete. Well, they finally got it from us in court. We were the ONLY holdouts for the 8-12 hour segments. Also the last to accept a B-scale while all the rest fell for the growth scale

Yes....they did. For years and years....before bankruptcy. It was lost during the BK contract negotiations. Do we need to start a list of what both sides lost vs kept as they went through the bankruptcy process, or should we make blanket statements about "class" based on a single contractual item?

 

[General Lee]

75/76 are set up as one class. The jets I listed are the largest aircraft (top 10% of the combined fleet and have MTGW > 500K). They are also the aircraft which goes most senior on both lists. More importantly, DALPA and ACL like to twist things and play with numbers. I'm just returning the favor.

Schwanker

edit: It seems to be working as it's getting under ACL's skin. He has a real case of tunnel vision/kool-aide syndrome.

Did you and NWALPA forget about our 767-400s? They pay $20 more an hour than the other 757/767s, and are a seperate category. We have 21 of them (I believe?), and they are very senior. But........you seem to forget about them, a lot... They aint premium, I guess...


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

Did you and NWALPA forget about our 767-400s? They pay $20 more an hour than the other 757/767s, and are a seperate category. We have 21 of them (I believe?), and they are very senior. But........you seem to forget about them, a lot... They aint premium, I guess...


Bye Bye--General Lee

Nope, didn't forget about them. You have 21 of them, and they seat fewer PAX than our 330's. So you have 21 + 10 777's = 31. NWA has 32 330's + 30 747's = 62. Of course, DAL has 59 767-300ER's, but they pay the same as the 757 and they hold fewer PAX than NWA 757-300's.

 

[General Lee]

Nope, didn't forget about them. You have 21 of them, and they seat fewer PAX than our 330's. So you have 21 + 10 777's = 31. NWA has 32 330's + 30 747's = 62. Of course, DAL has 59 767-300ER's, but they pay the same as the 757 and they hold fewer PAX than NWA 757-300's.

Fewer pax seats on the 764? We might have more business elite seats instead of coach seats more like it. Same with the 757-300. You actually are comparing the 757-300 to the 767-300ER? Come on now. How about cargo on the 767-300ERs? I guess that doesn't count for you guys. Why do our planes pay the same BTW? We brought the 757 pay UP TO the 767 pay. Also, I wouldn't be talking too much about pay here. Your pay stinks. Leave that out of your arguments.

The 764 is bigger than your A332, maybe not the A333. The A332 is about the same size as a 767-300ER. Don't forget to take away your cargo 742s (you saw PM I sent you, right?) too. I hope you guys use these arguments in the arbitration. Hopefully laughter will not break out in the hearings. Really DTW, I think you too know your arguments are ridiculous. "Super duper Premium" widebody service. Riiiiiight. We'll all laugh about this someday I am sure.


Here is a great quote from FDJ2 about this SLI process, that of course, I agree with. I think it really outlines it all well:


"The fallacy of a DOH integration is that it does not balance the equities, as ALPA merger policy demands, that each pilot group brings to the merger. The date of hire argument is equivalent to claiming that a Euro and a Peso have equal value if they were minted on the same day. They don't. What matters is what a Euro, or a Peso can buy. Similarly, what day your seniority was minted doesn't matter, what matters is what your seniority can buy. Can it buy you a DC-9 left seat, or a 757 left seat?"


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Over the beer that you buy right General?