IBT agrees to allow vote for NJASAP

[netjetwife]

It will be your pilotgroup flying under the contract--not your managers--so who better to represent your interests and plan your transition into the NetJets Association? GSD, I think a committee is a great idea. And such independent thinking is a better match for an independent association of pilots...

The interested pilots could put the integration committee together now and get started formulating a list of objectives. Then when you approached management you'd make the request as a well organized group with stated goals. I think it'd increase your chances of getting their approval. It should certainly get their attention...
Best Wishes!
NJW

 

[cush]

This is a big part of what really bothers me. I really like and care for our management. A big part of what we do is make things happen for the customer(legally). Why would I want to file a grievance against my buddies or Mr.RTS or Mr.WB. I like being here. I was lucky to be hired to work with such good people and I needed a job when I got here.

RTD,

I was here (EJA/NJA) when we had fewer than 200 pilots. Back then, I knew EVERY manager on a first named basis.(In a good way) If I had a problem or question, I would just go in whoevers office and straighten it out. No grievance necessary. So I know where you are coming from.

That being said, once you become part of 3000 plus. No one will notice if you file a grievance a week and no will care. The warm fuzzy small company feel was lost long ago. But to be honest, I prefer the anonimity of of being a part of a large group. Now, I just show up, do the best job I can, and reap the incredible benefits my union has provided me. It really is a good deal.

 

[YankeeEcho]

RTD,

I was here (EJA/NJA) when we had fewer than 200 pilots. Back then, I knew EVERY manager on a first named basis.(In a good way) If I had a problem or question, I would just go in whoevers office and straighten it out. No grievance necessary. So I know where you are coming from.

That being said, once you become part of 3000 plus. No one will notice if you file a grievance a week and no will care. The warm fuzzy small company feel was lost long ago. But to be honest, I prefer the anonimity of of being a part of a large group. Now, I just show up, do the best job I can, and reap the incredible benefits my union has provided me. It really is a good deal.

Too bad you feel that way - at NJI it is still very possible to solve any issue expeditiously one-on-one with whoever can best address the issue - we don't need committees and referees!

 

[RTRHD]

RTD,

I was here (EJA/NJA) when we had fewer than 200 pilots. Back then, I knew EVERY manager on a first named basis.(In a good way) If I had a problem or question, I would just go in whoevers office and straighten it out. No grievance necessary. So I know where you are coming from.

That being said, once you become part of 3000 plus. No one will notice if you file a grievance a week and no will care. The warm fuzzy small company feel was lost long ago. But to be honest, I prefer the anonimity of of being a part of a large group. Now, I just show up, do the best job I can, and reap the incredible benefits my union has provided me. It really is a good deal.

I hear ya cush. My mind is open, so we will will see.

 

[netjetwife]

You guys talk about dropping into the office to sort out a problem but that's not always possible or convenient. If it gets complicated and/or is on-going it's helpful to have a Steward working on your behalf so you can focus on flying. NetJets Association pilots value the help they receive from Stewards and are glad to have a level playing field. An arbitrary, self-help process is prone to inequities.

Those casual "drop-in" arrangements favor those who've been there longer. What if just the week before a fellow pilot had the same situation come up...but he was better friends with management and got a different answer to his question? Discussions with management are fine for pilots comfortable with that venue, but not everyone is, especially in sticky situations when you have to stand up for yourself. The DIY method just isn't fair. Furthermore, if there's no written rules to follow, management can unilaterally make them up as they go along--that's not right either. Compounding the problem, different managers can have differing opinions. Operations should be consistent so that the pilots always know precisely where they stand and that they are all being treated the same--regardless of who they speak to or when their problem occurs.

Even assuming no favoritism ever occurs :erm: , people can, and do, make mistakes. A grievance is just the name of the well organized, fair process used to correct infractions that happen in a busy operating tempo. About those "Referees"... It has to be recognized that NJA likes the Steward on Duty program because it improves efficiency. Stewards are respected by both management and the pilotgroup. As for Committees... They are a great way for the pilots to have an input into operations that directly affect them. Service is voluntary and those who sign up enjoy the opportunity to share their other talents with the Company and their fellow pilots. They like being part of solutions and working as a team to make things better for all involved. Here's a good example... Under the leadership of the talented UTC Chairman, the Union Training Committee helped NJA streamline training. That saved millions of dollars which helped fund the IBB pay raise and signing bonus. Needless to say, NJA pilots have a high regard for the excellent work that comes out of the committees and a lot of respect and gratitude to those pilots who serve for the greater good.

Like any important relationship, you get out of it what you put into it. You can sit on the sidelines and complain, or you can pitch in and help create an Association (and a company) you can be proud of. Luckily, enough motivated, talented volunteers chose to do the latter and the results of their efforts are being enjoyed by the entire pilotgroup and NJA, as a whole. Many improvements have been made thanks to work done by the various joint committees. Kudos to everyone involved! NJW

 

[gutshotdraw]

Too bad you feel that way - at NJI it is still very possible to solve any issue expeditiously one-on-one with whoever can best address the issue - we don't need committees and referees!

Tell that to the pilot who got a carpet dance after a certain someone went backtracking on a supposedly anonymous safety report.

The world has changed bud. This deal is going to happen. Let's put together an agreement that guarantees the junior guys upgrade in the fleet on a proportional basis along with the other protections stated in the LOA and get it over with.

 

[RTRHD]

Tell that to the pilot who got a carpet dance after a certain someone went backtracking on a supposedly anonymous safety report.

The world has changed bud. This deal is going to happen. Let's put together an agreement that guarantees the junior guys upgrade in the fleet on a proportional basis along with the other protections stated in the LOA and get it over with.

Agreed.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You guys talk about dropping into the office to sort out a problem but that's not always possible or convenient.

This is especially true if you don’t work for the company. NJW speaks from experience on this.​

If it gets complicated and/or is on-going it's helpful to have a Steward working on your behalf so you can focus on flying.

Everything is complicated for NJW as she doesn’t work in aviation and has no personal experience to draw from. I’m certain that NJW would rely on the steward, but she doesn’t work at NJ or in aviation. ​

NetJets Association pilots value the help they receive from Stewards and are glad to have a level playing field. An arbitrary, self-help process is prone to inequities.

How does she know this? She doesn’t work for NJ. ​

Those casual "drop-in" arrangements favor those who've been there longer. What if just the week before a fellow pilot had the same situation come up...but he was better friends with management and got a different answer to his question?

She would have experience in this, because only casual “drop-in” arrangements are the only thing that can happen for non-employees.​

Discussions with management are fine for pilots comfortable with that venue, but not everyone is, especially in sticky situations when you have to stand up for yourself.

Of course she doesn’t work at NJ and has never spoken with management there as an employee so she can’t talk from personal experience. ​

The DIY method just isn't fair.

That is because in NJW’s world, unions need to speak for her, unless somebody else points out her shortcoming, in which she will write pages to explain herself. ​

Furthermore, if there's no written rules to follow, management can unilaterally make them up as they go along--that's not right either.

There are always written rules, HR policies etc. However, as a non-employee that thinks everything is in a contract, she wouldn’t know that.​

Compounding the problem, different managers can have differing opinions.

Duh….​

Operations should be consistent so that the pilots always know precisely where they stand and that they are all being treated the same--regardless of who they speak to or when their problem occurs.

I’ll say it again… Duh…..​

Even assuming no favoritism ever occurs , people can, and do, make mistakes.

NJW is a union supporter that supports a SCAB list so this statement is useless and pure doublespeak. ​

A grievance is just the name of the well organized, fair process used to correct infractions that happen in a busy operating tempo. About those "Referees"...

NJW, how many of these hearing have you personally been involved with? How would you know this, because it SOUNDS like a good idea? You need to get into the industry and work in it before you make blankets statements like this. ​

It has to be recognized that NJA likes the Steward on Duty program because it improves efficiency.

NJW doesn’t work there or have any personal experience in this. How does she know this?​

Stewards are respected by both management and the pilotgroup. As for Committees...

Once again, a matter of opinion (see above). But how does she know this, she doesn’t work in aviation or at NJ.​

They are a great way for the pilots to have an input into operations that directly affect them.

Once again, how do you know that? What personal experience do you draw from and what evidence do you have that it works better than at a non-union carrier such as CS?​

Service is voluntary and those who sign up enjoy the opportunity to share their other talents with the Company and their fellow pilots.

Here we go again with the voluntary line. Do they get paid or are they volunteering and getting a stipend for not flying and doing union business instead? Doesn’t sound like a volunteer, sounds more like a paid employee. ​

They like being part of solutions and working as a team to make things better for all involved. Here's a good example...

You are not part of the team, so how can you offer this statement as fact. You don’t work at NJ, you don’t work in aviation and have nothing to contribute. This is just an opinion, right?​

Under the leadership of the talented UTC Chairman, the Union Training Committee helped NJA streamline training.

Once again, based on what facts can you say this has occurred? You don’t work for NJ, you’ve never been trained as a pilot there, and you are assuming that your husband has helped to streamline training there. Even so, it’s up to the FAA and management to determine if training has been streamlined.​

That saved millions of dollars which helped fund the IBB pay raise and signing bonus.

You don’t work for NJ yet feel empowered to make this statement. ​

Needless to say, NJA pilots have a high regard for the excellent work that comes out of the committees and a lot of respect and gratitude to those pilots who serve for the greater good.

How can you make this statement as a non-employee? ​

Like any important relationship, you get out of it what you put into it.

Maybe you should go to work there and see what it’s like. Then your posts would hold some creditability. ​

You can sit on the sidelines and complain, or you can pitch in and help create an Association (and a company) you can be proud of.

Looks like you need to pitch in, roll your sleeves up and try working in aviation for a living rather than telling the rest of us what it’s like and how we should do it. ​

Luckily, enough motivated, talented volunteers chose to do the latter and the results of their efforts are being enjoyed by the entire pilotgroup and NJA, as a whole.

Damn, if I got paid to volunteer, I’d be motivated too!!!!​

Many improvements have been made thanks to work done by the various joint committees.

Once again, an observation from an outsider that doesn’t work at NJ and has no clue what an “improvement” in aviation is. ​

Kudos to everyone involved! NJW

Never ceases to fascinate me how you post as though you have worked in aviation, worked at NJ or any other carrier, and have earned the right to hold these know-it-all attitudes.

You aren’t anything but a pilot’s wife with too much time on her hands.

Nothing more.

 

[dime line]

And there he is, ya just can't stay away, and yet you let "JUST A PILOTS WIFE" get under your skin.

moron

 

[fischman]

B19,

You are disrespectful and ignorant of the situation at NJA.

Trust me. NJW is better qualified to speak about the situation, relationships, and policies in the fractional industry, NJA in particular, than you.

Come to think of it, my 4 year old is better qualified than you.