IBT agrees to allow vote for NJASAP

[RTRHD]

Can anyone hear me!!!!!!!!!

 

[SKYLAWYER]

Can anyone hear me!!!!!!!!!

I hear you. Sometimes I feel like working without a contract and being happy is taboo these days. It's amazing how sometimes people forget how they felt to get the interview invite from the company they currently work for. Amazing how the rules that were good enough for you when you accepted the job are in some cases magically horrible after being on property for a year. I see the benefits of being a union employee, I also see the benefits of being a non-union employee if the leadership and the pilots have a relationship of mutual respect and a mutual vision. Its weird to listen to employees who say how great something is but just in case........
It takes b*lls to stand up and say how happy you are in your current working condition and how you may be a little concerned about having representation that you did not solicit. I hear you and respect your stance. Ice creams great, but no-one likes to be forced to eat it. The flavor of any commodity can easily change depending on how it's served. I don't work at NJ or NJI so feel free to file 13 my humble opinion.

 

[netjetwife]

RT, I think part of your unease is the way you're looking at the situation. Grievances only go forward if they have merit and they're business--not personal. Both sides signed the contract pledging to follow the rules they agreed upon together. Try this analogy: Where would organized sports be without referees? Making sure that the rules are followed brings order and discipline, not to mention, it's good for morale because things are done fairly and everyone is treated equally. The Company doesn't view Stewards as enemies; they like the Steward on Duty program. My husband was a Steward (before his leadership position) and he is well respected by the Company. Many of the Stewards also serve on joint committees where they work with the Company to make things better for everyone. The relationship between the Union and the Company is much better these days than you seem to think. As a final reassurance... grievances are entirely optional. NJW

 

[netjetwife]

....I see the benefits of being a union employee, I also see the benefits of being a non-union employee if the leadership and the pilots have a relationship of mutual respect and a mutual vision. .... .

Just to clarify, you're not suggesting that only non-union pilotgroups can have a mutually respectful relationship with management, are you?

I think that NJASAP (leaders and pilotgroup at large) will be doing their best to serve Union membership with friendliness and professionalism. To use your analogy, Sky, it's understandable that the new flavor may take some getting used to, but I predict that for the NJI pilots it will become an acquired taste easily enough. Regards, NJW

 

[SKYLAWYER]

Just to clarify, you're not suggesting that only non-union pilotgroups can have a mutually respectful relationship with management, are you?

Not at all, I am actually indicating the opposite. You can ONLY BE a successful non union company IF the management has a mutual respect relationship. If that relationship does not exist then a union would HAVE to be in effect to prevent employee abuse. The union would also in my opinion be on property very very quickly. Union drives stall when some employees feel that mgmt is treating them great. If all were feeling abused it would be a very quick and easy transition to the union.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks, Sky, I didn't think you were of the mind-set that only saw unions in an antagonistic light where management's concerned. Unfortunately, unionization because of bad management is quite common and then the pilots have to fight for a fair deal, just like the Options pilotgroup. With the logical and obvious success of the carrot approach, it's amazing how tightly some managers will cling to their stick...

I agree with the quick-response-when-abused theory--for the most part. There's also the abused but too fearful to stand up for yourself types that have to be dragged along. They won't do anything to rock the boat and that attitude just opens the door wider for exploitation.

NJASAP has shown that you garner respect when you stand up for your rights and aren't afraid to speak up. The agreement, fair for all involved, is another example that carrots are better than the stick approach. After the rocky start to the discussions it's nice to see the process on the right path.

 

[RTRHD]

Thanks SL, good posts. I really do see us headed the way of the airline. Notice how little customer get mentioned, its all about fatigue calls and watching scheduling.

 

[fischman]

This is a big part of what really bothers me. I really like and care for our management. A big part of what we do is make things happen for the customer(legally). Why would I want to file a grievance against my buddies or Mr.RTS or Mr.WB. I like being here. I was lucky to be hired to work with such good people and I needed a job when I got here.

RTRHD,

I'm not flame baiting, just asking.

Have you ever worked for a union shop?

At NJA we had a long BuMpY road to an agreement with the company. We had to fight for every single word in that contract. If the company doesn't comply with the contract they to which they agreed, the appropriate action is to file the grievance. It isn't personal, it is business. Where do you draw the line?

 

[realityman]

RT,

I'm very grateful to have a job! And show me one post where I've said that I'm not happy here.

But being grateful for the job, and expecting management (and the pilots!) to play by the rules we all mutually agreed to are two separate issues.

I assure you, if I violate the rules of the contract (or the FAR's, or even the FOM) I'll be subject to disciplinary action, up to termination.

If the company violates the rules of the contract, what should we do? Just shrug our shoulders and say, "Oh well, it was really nice that they hired me, so I guess I can let it slide."? Grievances are just the pilots' way of making sure the rules get followed from the company's side.

If we don't insist they follow the rules, then why bother having a contract?

And it's really not personal. I highly doubt that RTS and/or WB keep a list of names of people who file grievances. You could file dozens of grievances and I'm sure you'd still be buddies with whoever you want in management. I've filed plenty of grievances and am still on good terms with my CP and ACP's. I doubt they even know about them.

 

[realityman]

Thanks SL, good posts. I really do see us headed the way of the airline. Notice how little customer get mentioned, its all about fatigue calls and watching scheduling.

If you're making this judgement based on what you read on FI, you are seriously ill-informed. Not your fault, since you don't have access to our union message boards, but wrong.

There are at least four separate threads going on our union message board right now discussing at great length customer service, what it really takes, and how we can improve upon it.

As for fatigue calls vs. customer service, aren't they one and the same? What favors are you doing for the client by flying when you're really tired? It's GREAT customer service to get them to their destination even when you're tired. It's just one more leg, right? I wonder if it'll be considered the same great service if we ball one up because a tired pilot made a critical mistake?

Not picking on you, RT. Just wondering if you really believe that calling in fatigued when you're tired is a bad thing.