IBT agrees to allow vote for NJASAP

[Dr Pepper]

I think this agreement is pretty amazing, if it goes off without any problems.
IBT will let the NJA pilots vote, internally, to decide whether they want NJASAP or IBT to represent. No NMB involvement. NJASAP will help support Fl Opt set up their own shop. Dues will be handled in a civil manner. The refund goes forward. IBT and NJASAP agree to work together when it is in the interest of both parties, I assume on national interests.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

I hate paying all those dues for the dumb Teamsters MAgazine, but why is management so happy about this? Will they be able to bully us like AMR and the APA?

Didn't care for Hoffa's letter though. He should've apologized for Treichler and "The richest contract in history" now known as the POSTA.

If they lose us, it's their own fault. But, I'd sure like to be able to call up that Teamster muscle if we needed to.

 

[netjetwife]

Crawdaddy, the IBT must surely realize that they've already lost the NJ pilots with over 82% sending in cards stating that they want to be represented by NJASAP. The election will just make it official. Even if their campaign was able to draw a portion of the pilots back to their side, I just can't see 30% changing their mind. The NJ pilotgroup's success under 1108 was due to their own leadership and unity--not Teamster muscle. That said, the agreement does call for NJASAP and the IBT to work together on future endeavors. Considering that the Flt Ops pilot group will be 1108, we already have an ally for fractional issues. As a team they will be a strong voice for the industry.

The quick response to NJASAP's call to turn in cards and start an independence movement leaves management fully aware of the determination and unity of the NJ pilots. That makes them stronger than ever so I don't see any opening, not to mention reasons, for the Company to want to "bully" the pilots. History has already taught them that carrots work far better than sticks and that solutions/improvements are found in the joint committees that benefit all involved. My educated guess as to why management would be happy with the agreement is that they prefer the image of an in-house pilot group. So do the NJI pilots. There's also the business side of the deal to consider and savvy businessmen will have no problem seeing the advantage of an independent union, financially speaking. Congrats to all parties of the agreement! NJW

 

[RTRHD]

My educated guess as to why management would be happy with the agreement is that they prefer the image of an in-house pilot group. So do the NJI pilots.

Will I may not know as much as you do. I just work there (NJI). But I think it is pretty safe to say no one wanted to be part of a truckers/rampers union.

 

[netjetwife]

RT, my apologies. I certainly didn't mean to offend any of the NJI pilots. I, too, just felt that it was a safe thing to say based on my conversations here with NJI pilots that have told me an in-house union is more appealing than the Teamsters.

Now you guys can see why so many of my posts get lengthy. If I don't go out of my way to carefully state things very diplomatically I can ruffle feathers unintentionally.... Actually, I was being considerate of the opinions of the NJI pilots that are likely to be merged with NJASAP.

 

[RTRHD]

RT, my apologies. I certainly didn't mean to offend any of the NJI pilots. I, too, just felt that it was a safe thing to say based on my conversations here with NJI pilots that have told me an in-house union is more appealing than the Teamsters.

Now you guys can see why so many of my posts get lengthy. If I don't go out of my way to carefully state things very diplomatically I can ruffle feathers unintentionally....

No apologies necessary,my feathers not ruffled. Out of our 300 everybody seems to have a different opinion. So I don't know I can't imagine 3000. We will see I guess. But as a wife you certainly have a dog in this race.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks, RT.... Think of government; the population elects representatives to speak for them. In the Union you do that, too, to make day to day operations more orderly and efficient. Voting on a contract gives you a voice in the rules you work under and the amount you're paid so that covers the basics. Participation in Union committees is encouraged and that offers pilots an avenue to help set the direction of the Union. I think you'll find that it's a very democratic process and that it's reassuring to know you have solid support behind you if needed.

http://njasap.com has lots of information that will give you insight into the leadership and their plans for the future. The more you learn now the easier it will be to share one house later. Just calling the NJA pilots step brothers now bodes well for a good relationship with them down the road, IMO. Kudos to you for having a positive attitude in spite of understandable concerns over something new. Regards, NJW

 

[RTRHD]

Thanks, RT.... Think of government;

Well that makes me feel better.:bawling: Just kidding NJW

 

[netjetwife]

The basic outline perhaps. You'll be interested to learn that the NJA pilots set up programs-- like a training program for Stewards-- that the IBT copied. Active participation in the Union gives the pilots opportunities outside of flying for additional challenges and ways to use their other talents in productive, rewarding ways that benefit the entire group.

It makes perfect sense for the NJ pilots to go in-house because their understanding that they are the Union turned them into a strong, independent group that sets high standards and works hard to meet their goals. I'm thinking that the NJI pilots will fit right in. NJW

 

[RTRHD]

What are you unsure of, exactly? The work rules are all spelled out in the contract and there are Union Stewards trained to help and/or represent the pilots if interpretation is needed. A Steward is always on duty in CMH per the contract. The Company and the Union have found the SOD program helps things run smoother. While the pilotgroup is expected to understand the contract, the leadership and Stewards are contract experts always ready to answer any question and help pilots file a grievance if the contract is violated. IBB proved that the Company and the Union can work well together.

This is a big part of what really bothers me. I really like and care for our management. A big part of what we do is make things happen for the customer(legally). Why would I want to file a grievance against my buddies or Mr.RTS or Mr.WB. I like being here. I was lucky to be hired to work with such good people and I needed a job when I got here.

 

[RTRHD]

Can anyone hear me!!!!!!!!!

 

[SKYLAWYER]

Can anyone hear me!!!!!!!!!

I hear you. Sometimes I feel like working without a contract and being happy is taboo these days. It's amazing how sometimes people forget how they felt to get the interview invite from the company they currently work for. Amazing how the rules that were good enough for you when you accepted the job are in some cases magically horrible after being on property for a year. I see the benefits of being a union employee, I also see the benefits of being a non-union employee if the leadership and the pilots have a relationship of mutual respect and a mutual vision. Its weird to listen to employees who say how great something is but just in case........
It takes b*lls to stand up and say how happy you are in your current working condition and how you may be a little concerned about having representation that you did not solicit. I hear you and respect your stance. Ice creams great, but no-one likes to be forced to eat it. The flavor of any commodity can easily change depending on how it's served. I don't work at NJ or NJI so feel free to file 13 my humble opinion.

 

[netjetwife]

RT, I think part of your unease is the way you're looking at the situation. Grievances only go forward if they have merit and they're business--not personal. Both sides signed the contract pledging to follow the rules they agreed upon together. Try this analogy: Where would organized sports be without referees? Making sure that the rules are followed brings order and discipline, not to mention, it's good for morale because things are done fairly and everyone is treated equally. The Company doesn't view Stewards as enemies; they like the Steward on Duty program. My husband was a Steward (before his leadership position) and he is well respected by the Company. Many of the Stewards also serve on joint committees where they work with the Company to make things better for everyone. The relationship between the Union and the Company is much better these days than you seem to think. As a final reassurance... grievances are entirely optional. NJW

 

[netjetwife]

....I see the benefits of being a union employee, I also see the benefits of being a non-union employee if the leadership and the pilots have a relationship of mutual respect and a mutual vision. .... .

Just to clarify, you're not suggesting that only non-union pilotgroups can have a mutually respectful relationship with management, are you?

I think that NJASAP (leaders and pilotgroup at large) will be doing their best to serve Union membership with friendliness and professionalism. To use your analogy, Sky, it's understandable that the new flavor may take some getting used to, but I predict that for the NJI pilots it will become an acquired taste easily enough. Regards, NJW

 

[SKYLAWYER]

Just to clarify, you're not suggesting that only non-union pilotgroups can have a mutually respectful relationship with management, are you?

Not at all, I am actually indicating the opposite. You can ONLY BE a successful non union company IF the management has a mutual respect relationship. If that relationship does not exist then a union would HAVE to be in effect to prevent employee abuse. The union would also in my opinion be on property very very quickly. Union drives stall when some employees feel that mgmt is treating them great. If all were feeling abused it would be a very quick and easy transition to the union.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks, Sky, I didn't think you were of the mind-set that only saw unions in an antagonistic light where management's concerned. Unfortunately, unionization because of bad management is quite common and then the pilots have to fight for a fair deal, just like the Options pilotgroup. With the logical and obvious success of the carrot approach, it's amazing how tightly some managers will cling to their stick...

I agree with the quick-response-when-abused theory--for the most part. There's also the abused but too fearful to stand up for yourself types that have to be dragged along. They won't do anything to rock the boat and that attitude just opens the door wider for exploitation.

NJASAP has shown that you garner respect when you stand up for your rights and aren't afraid to speak up. The agreement, fair for all involved, is another example that carrots are better than the stick approach. After the rocky start to the discussions it's nice to see the process on the right path.

 

[RTRHD]

Thanks SL, good posts. I really do see us headed the way of the airline. Notice how little customer get mentioned, its all about fatigue calls and watching scheduling.

 

[fischman]

This is a big part of what really bothers me. I really like and care for our management. A big part of what we do is make things happen for the customer(legally). Why would I want to file a grievance against my buddies or Mr.RTS or Mr.WB. I like being here. I was lucky to be hired to work with such good people and I needed a job when I got here.

RTRHD,

I'm not flame baiting, just asking.

Have you ever worked for a union shop?

At NJA we had a long BuMpY road to an agreement with the company. We had to fight for every single word in that contract. If the company doesn't comply with the contract they to which they agreed, the appropriate action is to file the grievance. It isn't personal, it is business. Where do you draw the line?

 

[realityman]

RT,

I'm very grateful to have a job! And show me one post where I've said that I'm not happy here.

But being grateful for the job, and expecting management (and the pilots!) to play by the rules we all mutually agreed to are two separate issues.

I assure you, if I violate the rules of the contract (or the FAR's, or even the FOM) I'll be subject to disciplinary action, up to termination.

If the company violates the rules of the contract, what should we do? Just shrug our shoulders and say, "Oh well, it was really nice that they hired me, so I guess I can let it slide."? Grievances are just the pilots' way of making sure the rules get followed from the company's side.

If we don't insist they follow the rules, then why bother having a contract?

And it's really not personal. I highly doubt that RTS and/or WB keep a list of names of people who file grievances. You could file dozens of grievances and I'm sure you'd still be buddies with whoever you want in management. I've filed plenty of grievances and am still on good terms with my CP and ACP's. I doubt they even know about them.

 

[realityman]

Thanks SL, good posts. I really do see us headed the way of the airline. Notice how little customer get mentioned, its all about fatigue calls and watching scheduling.

If you're making this judgement based on what you read on FI, you are seriously ill-informed. Not your fault, since you don't have access to our union message boards, but wrong.

There are at least four separate threads going on our union message board right now discussing at great length customer service, what it really takes, and how we can improve upon it.

As for fatigue calls vs. customer service, aren't they one and the same? What favors are you doing for the client by flying when you're really tired? It's GREAT customer service to get them to their destination even when you're tired. It's just one more leg, right? I wonder if it'll be considered the same great service if we ball one up because a tired pilot made a critical mistake?

Not picking on you, RT. Just wondering if you really believe that calling in fatigued when you're tired is a bad thing.