Hurray for the 1108, The RIFed are back !

[BE40Driver]

Come ON

B-19, If you worked for FO you would know they are slowly calling the 128 back also in CGF. Started with Maints. personal first.

 

[dime line]

B-19, If you worked for FO you would know they are slowly calling the 128 back also in CGF. Started with Maints. personal first.

They are?

 

[skanza]

Sorry. Your sarcasm doesn't sweep the facts under the rug. What facts. Please list.



Well, no. Because an argument would imply that there are valid points on both sides. You/B19 are trolls so, no one is missing anything (other than a laugh) if they have you on their ignore list.

Trolls? You call that facts? That's just your opinion since what we speak is anti-union. But you guys don't even consider it because you're so wrapped up in the union...there just can't be another way, can there?

 

[brokeflyer]

the problem is because were having a discussion and someone said "thanks" for their union....then you 2 fck heads come in and bash the unions.....so I think it YOU that can't see it any other way.

Would you agree that life would better for a pilot WITHOUT a union?

i think not....and that is undisputable fact. As a PIC i have huge responsiblity and I should be paid for that, when you become a captain you will see also.....i just hope that you come to your senses before you hurt someone or worse, kill a plane load of people because your trying to please management.

 

[Galaxy]

Trolls? You call that facts? That's just your opinion since what we speak is anti-union. But you guys don't even consider it because you're so wrapped up in the union...there just can't be another way, can there?

Yea--right!...Like all that No Union thing worked out in the past. I remember Bobs emails.. If you vote in a union you can't come straight to us and talk. Talk about what? Pay? Work rules? Like that would work. If I walked in to talk about a raise they would simply open the book of payscales and point to it. You can have your opinion--but it has no strength. Besides--I enjoy thinking about all the emails that are going to Kenn about Bob and how he trash talked Kenn for years. Ooops looks like that Bob boot is going to taste pretty good. If you like it the Sh1tfinger way-just donate anything extra you get due to the 1108 to a local charity. Ya! I doubt you will.

 

[waka]

Trolls? You call that facts? That's just your opinion since what we speak is anti-union. But you guys don't even consider it because you're so wrapped up in the union...there just can't be another way, can there?

Absolutely. All you do is spread propaganda when it has been clearly shown that a union was the only way to deal with the gross mismanagement.

You and B19 have repeatedly demonstrated your lack of knowledge of the real issues at FLOPS yet you keep posting your BS. Like I said, you're just trolls and instigators with never a valid argument.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Unions are all the same....

Absolutely. All you do is spread propaganda when it has been clearly shown that a union was the only way to deal with the gross mismanagement.

You and B19 have repeatedly demonstrated your lack of knowledge of the real issues at FLOPS yet you keep posting your BS. Like I said, you're just trolls and instigators with never a valid argument.

I don't have to know the real issues at FLOPS. I do understand and have worked intensely with unions in the past, and they ALL work the same.

One thing I do know, is that on this board NOTHING has been said about the 128 unless it's been prompted. Lots of chest beating to show how wonderful 1108 is regarding the 70, but not a single moral or ethical statement regarding the coworkers caught up in the same mass firing unless prompted.

FYI, they have families too. Their existance within the company has a purpose and reason, no different than a pilot, regardless of the job function they perform.

By not mentioning anything about these 128, it shows the continued selfishness nature of union supporters. To hell with everybody else, as long as they get their way.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Laughable...

the problem is because were having a discussion and someone said "thanks" for their union....then you 2 fck heads come in and bash the unions.....so I think it YOU that can't see it any other way.

Would you agree that life would better for a pilot WITHOUT a union?

i think not....and that is undisputable fact. As a PIC i have huge responsiblity and I should be paid for that, when you become a captain you will see also.....i just hope that you come to your senses before you hurt someone or worse, kill a plane load of people because your trying to please management.

It is a very disputable fact.

What an egotistical idiot you are.

You have a responsibilty to fly the airplane on the flight, that is all. By the time you get to the aircraft, all the hard work is done.

Who are the people that set up your procedures and programs, unions? NOT!

Who does the hiring, the training and purchases the equipment, computers and software to run the company, unions? NOT!

The entire infrastructure of any company, airline or otherwise is designed and maintained by non-union workers.

You and those around you depend on non-union workers for your mere existance as a pilot. It's a non-union worker that writes your paycheck and a non-union worker that signs your paycheck.

Your thinking that it takes a union pilot to accomplish what non-union workers have prepared is laughable at best, yet when a union wants a raise they are willing to crap all over those non-union workers to get what they want.

On most accidents, the chain of events starts elsewhere and rarely with a pilot. Mechanics and support personnel have just as much responsibility than a pilot does, if not more. Ever hear of SMS?Safety starts with senior managment, not with the pilot.

The rest of the company has the responsiblity to ensure the safety for the entire company and passengers to an extent that is far greater than that of a pilot.

Unions don't help safety, they hinder safety.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B-19, If you worked for FO you would know they are slowly calling the 128 back also in CGF. Started with Maints. personal first.

Did they need a union to support them on the recall?

No?

I guess what 1108 did wasn't so hot after all, was it? :laugh:

 

[ProFracPilot]

You have a responsibilty to fly the airplane on the flight, that is all. By the time you get to the aircraft, all the hard work is done.

This statement proves that you do not have a clue. There is a key omission, one that has been repeatedly made by you and that was repeatedly made by our previous neo-management: Flight Options is in the CUSTOMER SERVICE business and NOT the seat revenue business. Far beyond flying the airplane, in the fractional business the pilots are key to the customer service experience.

I know you've heard this before, but let me provide you a short refresher course. You cannot draw exacting parallels between pilots who fly for the majors and those who fly fractional. Pilots in the fractional market have much broader responsibility than our pilot bretheren in the majors, which you condescendingly describe as only "to fly the airplane on the flight". We are not dispatched, as you would define it in Part 121. The sheer number of airports that we serve day in and day out exceed those serviced by the majors by a factor of about 100 world-wide. This one fact demonstrates a huge divide between the responsibilities of the two pilot groups. In fractional operations, the pilot-in-command has the ULTIMATE responsibility for flight planning, airport and weather evaluation, determining maintenance status and that the aircraft performance is satisfactory for the airports of intended operation (can you say Aspen?). A similar statement reminding us of this responsibility is made on every one of our assigned trip sheets.

In addition to our primary responsibility of flying the airplane safely and efficiently, we are the front line sales force - or face - of the company. But it doesn't stop there. In the hierarchy of a fractional pilots responsibilities, and a very close second only to assuring the safety of flight, is the HUGE responsibility of assuring our owners never see the gross inefficiency and insanity that happens behind the scenes in the OCC prepararing for their flight. I and my crew are the ultimate filter, making sure that all the catering, ground trans and other unique requests are fulfilled. Don't get me wrong, there are some capable people at CGF. Some even still really care about the owners. But the "i" dotting and "t" crossing on items that typically wouldn't fall into your definition of "pilot" takes up a substantial amount of our time. And in the end, if the owners trip meets or (hopefully) exceeds their expectations, then we've done our job - regardless of whomever else's job I or my crew had to do to assure this level of service.

You, like our recently departed neo-management continue to be lost in your anti-union rhetoric and airline mentality. Neo-management lost sight of what makes a company like ours run, forsaking all semblence of customer service. They failed our customers, investors, pilots and all "team members". The pilots at Flight Options had recourse to gain recognition for our unique and far reaching responsibilites. We sought representation. Perhaps other employee groups also had this recourse and have chosen otherwise. But make no mistake: neo-management opened this door and now here we are. You can continue to attempt to draw parallels to your life experience with unions all you want. I, and (as evidenced by the recent cooperative attitude) current management believe that a comprehensive CBA will be a positive for the future of Flight Options.

I suspect the day Flight Options pilots ratify the CBA, B19, Skumza, et al will never be heard from on FI again

 

[brokeflyer]

Who are the people that set up your procedures and programs, unions? NOT!

I was hoping you would do it....lol

like i said before, you think i would be paid what im being paid right now without the union?.....you never did answer that because we both know the answer already.

just keep throwing your turd posts out here....we really love the laugh.

 

[Publishers]

This was pretty simple, one guy was shrinking the company, new guy shows up and makes a move to appease the troops while he deals with some serious other issues.

 

[WabiSabi]

This message is hidden because B19 Flyer is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because B19 Flyer is on your ignore list.

This message is hidden because B19 Flyer is on your ignore list.

Hmmm, 95% of the bull$hit is gone. Amazing!

 

[B19 Flyer]

I was hoping you would do it....lol

like i said before, you think i would be paid what im being paid right now without the union?.....you never did answer that because we both know the answer already.

just keep throwing your turd posts out here....we really love the laugh.

Legacy pilots sucked the carriers dry right before they put all of them into bankruptcy and now consolidation. There are lots of pilots now that would have chosen smaller paychecks and stability long before the big paychecks they used to have.

I've always said, when times are good, unions are wonderful, but the true measure of a union is when times are bad.

When the ecomomy slips and the company needs some of that money back, we'll see how that nice paycheck holds up. The bigger the paycheck is during the good times, means the deeper the cuts are during bad times because the company can't afford a "good times" CBA during bad times. Let's see how the job stability and seat protection holds up.

Fracs aren't immune, it's only a matter of time before they cycle around.

 

[skyismyoffice]

Did they need a union to support them on the recall?

No?

I guess what 1108 did wasn't so hot after all, was it?

They're not ALL being offered their jobs or getting full back pay like the pilots I give the Union credit for that .

 

[Galaxy]

Legacy pilots sucked the carriers dry right before they put all of them into bankruptcy and now consolidation. There are lots of pilots now that would have chosen smaller paychecks and stability long before the big paychecks they used to have.

I've always said, when times are good, unions are wonderful, but the true measure of a union is when times are bad.

When the ecomomy slips and the company needs some of that money back, we'll see how that nice paycheck holds up. The bigger the paycheck is during the good times, means the deeper the cuts are during bad times because the company can't afford a "good times" CBA during bad times. Let's see how the job stability and seat protection holds up.

Fracs aren't immune, it's only a matter of time before they cycle around.

Laughable...
It has to be the pilots and the union.. It couldn't be the overpaid mgt team that wins even if the company fails. It couldn't be the fact many legacy carriers ate the fat when the going was good instead of investing in more fuel efficient planes. It couldn't be that mgt still can not effectivly operate in the deregulation and compete against the LCC's and win.. Nawwwww not that it has to be the pilots.. ha ha--you always look like such an idiot when you write..

 

[B19 Flyer]

This statement proves that you do not have a clue. There is a key omission, one that has been repeatedly made by you and that was repeatedly made by our previous neo-management: Flight Options is in the CUSTOMER SERVICE business and NOT the seat revenue business. Far beyond flying the airplane, in the fractional business the pilots are key to the customer service experience.

I know you've heard this before, but let me provide you a short refresher course. You cannot draw exacting parallels between pilots who fly for the majors and those who fly fractional. Pilots in the fractional market have much broader responsibility than our pilot bretheren in the majors, which you condescendingly describe as only "to fly the airplane on the flight". We are not dispatched, as you would define it in Part 121. The sheer number of airports that we serve day in and day out exceed those serviced by the majors by a factor of about 100 world-wide. This one fact demonstrates a huge divide between the responsibilities of the two pilot groups. In fractional operations, the pilot-in-command has the ULTIMATE responsibility for flight planning, airport and weather evaluation, determining maintenance status and that the aircraft performance is satisfactory for the airports of intended operation (can you say Aspen?). A similar statement reminding us of this responsibility is made on every one of our assigned trip sheets.

In addition to our primary responsibility of flying the airplane safely and efficiently, we are the front line sales force - or face - of the company. But it doesn't stop there. In the hierarchy of a fractional pilots responsibilities, and a very close second only to assuring the safety of flight, is the HUGE responsibility of assuring our owners never see the gross inefficiency and insanity that happens behind the scenes in the OCC prepararing for their flight. I and my crew are the ultimate filter, making sure that all the catering, ground trans and other unique requests are fulfilled. Don't get me wrong, there are some capable people at CGF. Some even still really care about the owners. But the "i" dotting and "t" crossing on items that typically wouldn't fall into your definition of "pilot" takes up a substantial amount of our time. And in the end, if the owners trip meets or (hopefully) exceeds their expectations, then we've done our job - regardless of whomever else's job I or my crew had to do to assure this level of service.

You, like our recently departed neo-management continue to be lost in your anti-union rhetoric and airline mentality. Neo-management lost sight of what makes a company like ours run, forsaking all semblence of customer service. They failed our customers, investors, pilots and all "team members". The pilots at Flight Options had recourse to gain recognition for our unique and far reaching responsibilites. We sought representation. Perhaps other employee groups also had this recourse and have chosen otherwise. But make no mistake: neo-management opened this door and now here we are. You can continue to attempt to draw parallels to your life experience with unions all you want. I, and (as evidenced by the recent cooperative attitude) current management believe that a comprehensive CBA will be a positive for the future of Flight Options.

I suspect the day Flight Options pilots ratify the CBA, B19, Skumza, et al will never be heard from on FI again

Help me here.. how does more pay and defined rest rules change the long list you have here?

How does increasing the cost of labor to the pilot group help any of this?

A CBA defines only pay, benefits and work rules.

It doesn't fix any of the peceived issues you note above.

 

[Galaxy]

Who are the people that set up your procedures and programs, unions? NOT!

Who does the hiring, the training and purchases the equipment, computers and software to run the company, unions? NOT!

The entire infrastructure of any company, airline or otherwise is designed and maintained by non-union workers.

You and those around you depend on non-union workers for your mere existance as a pilot. It's a non-union worker that writes your paycheck and a non-union worker that signs your paycheck.

Your thinking that it takes a union pilot to accomplish what non-union workers have prepared is laughable at best, yet when a union wants a raise they are willing to crap all over those non-union workers to get what they want.

On most accidents, the chain of events starts elsewhere and rarely with a pilot. Mechanics and support personnel have just as much responsibility than a pilot does, if not more. Ever hear of SMS?Safety starts with senior managment, not with the pilot.

The rest of the company has the responsiblity to ensure the safety for the entire company and passengers to an extent that is far greater than that of a pilot.

Unions don't help safety, they hinder safety.

The Unions sole responsibility is to negotiate a contract for a specific group and protect the intersets and rights of such group.
The people you claim to do the above jobs were paid to do such. Whats your point?
As far as them having more responsibility? Again-you like to feel you are important..Keep pushing that paperwork...When you make a mistake the feds just say "No" do it over.. Pilots ofetn do not get that second ,third or fourth chance. Responsibility from the top down...This board is filled with stories of how irresponsible the top down have been in everything that they have done. The bottom line is the pilot! The passenger could care less how many manuals you have written so pilots could follow them. Or the mechanic that works on them. The passenger-Mr Moneybags-cares about the pilot-being rested qualified and knowledgeable to know when not to fly tired, hungry, pissed off, or just plain old mechanical junk--CND....

 

[B19 Flyer]

Laughable...
It has to be the pilots and the union.. It couldn't be the overpaid mgt team that wins even if the company fails. It couldn't be the fact many legacy carriers ate the fat when the going was good instead of investing in more fuel efficient planes. It couldn't be that mgt still can not effectivly operate in the deregulation and compete against the LCC's and win.. Nawwwww not that it has to be the pilots.. ha ha--you always look like such an idiot when you write..

LCCs have completely different missions than legacy carriers, they are apples and oranges. If LCCs attempted to accomplish what legacy carriers do, they are actually a lot less effiecient and could never pull it off and be profitable like legacy carriers are on international routes.

Even the most expensive CEO contract is pennies compared to a CBA and is a drop in the bucket compared to revenue. Not even a valid argument.

 

[dime line]

So here we go again, DA19 how much is a CEO worth these days?

 

[dime line]

Healthcare Economist

• Home
• About the Author
• Archives

• Subscribe to feed

« Did Serrano Cause Prop 13? • British Columbia mulls over expansion of private health insurance »
United Health CEO earned $124.8 million in 2005

February 14, 2006 in Current Events, Health Insurance

Forbes magazine reports that William W. McGuire, CEO of UnitedHealth Group) received compensation of $124.8 million in 2005. Managed Care Magazine also says that the average executive compensation (excluding unexercised stock options) for an executive of a ‘top 10 for profit health plan’ was $11.7 million and that was back in 2000.
Are these high salaries a good for the welfare of American citizens?​

Liberals would state that this is an outrage. The Dissident Voice website abhors these “robber barons” stating:

William McGuire of UnitedHealth Group, the nation’s leading insurer, was the third-highest paid CEO on the Forbes list. His pay of $124.8 million could cover the average health insurance premiums of nearly 34,000 people….​

While workers are having a tougher time making ends meet, CEOs are getting perks worth more than worker paychecks. CEO freeloaders expect perks such as lifetime use of company jets, chauffeured cars, company apartments, club memberships, sports tickets, financial planning, personal assistants and more. ​

In CEO World, the more money you make, the less you should have to pay for.​

BusinessWeek’s profile of McGuire is much more complimentary. It shows how McGuire has helped increase consumer choice in the marketplace.

When McGuire took over in 1991, UnitedHealth was little more than a regional health-maintenance organization. By trying to offer something for every-body and identifying lucrative niches, McGuire, now 55, has turned it into one of the most diversified health-services companies. If you don’t like the restrictions of an HMO plan, you can sign up for a preferred-provider organization. Belong to AARP? You can sign up for a special drug-discount card…​

[McGuire has also] set up a program to track cardiology centers of excellence, so that patients can find the best places for treatment.​

Economists generally would not have a problem with the large compensation in a competitive marketplace. Firms who pay executives more than their marginal productivity will lose money and competitors with less expensive CEOs could earn more profits.
McGuire does seem to be a productive CEO; according to Forbes UnitedHealth Group returns are 19% higher than the S&P 500 over his tenure. Further, the majority of McGuire’s compensation was in the form of stock options. With stock options, however, it is dificult to ascertain what amount was given as compensation (amounts below the current value of the stock) and which amount was due to increased productivity which raised the stock price.
So what is the solution? Regulating CEO salaries is not desirable. Shareholders should be the ones who are outraged at the compensation which is cutting into their profits. If the health care insurance market is not competitive, United Health can pass on the cost of McGuire’s salary to consumers. I believe that the health insurance market is very competitive and this is not an option for united health. Thus, the ones who truly suffer from the large CEO salary are United Health shareholders. If citizens wish for a more equitable society, that can be accomplished with a more progressive tax structure. While seeing exorbitant CEO salaries highlights the sad inequitities of society, putting a cap on salaries is not the solution.

 

[dime line]

April 9, 2007
RE: United Airlines CEO and executive compensation
Dear Representative:
The alarming growth in wage disparity between executives and workers in this country is in critical need
of Congressional attention. I call your attention to a gross example of this disparity that is emerging at
United Airlines, where I represent 17,000 Flight Attendants in the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA.
United Airlines CEO Glenn Tilton received $39.7 million in 2006, including salary, bonus, incentives,
perks, above-market returns on deferred compensation and the estimated value of stock options and
awards granted during the year. At the same time, United Flight Attendants continue to experience lifechanging
wage, healthcare and work rule concessions, along with termination of their pension plan.
Incredibly, Tilton’s 2006 compensation exceeded the airline’s entire annual profit of $25 million reported
by United’s parent company UAL, Inc (UAL).
The United CEO and senior executive compensation package outpaced other corporate executive
compensation by large margins. The Corporate Library, a corporate governance watchdog group,
surveyed the proxy filings of 1,000 large U.S. companies and found that overall CEO compensation in
increased at a rate of 16% in 2005 and 9.29% in 2006. By comparison, UAL Securities and Exchange
Commission filings show Tilton and his suite of senior executives received increases in compensation
equaling 40% on a year-over-year basis, as well as bonuses throughout the company’s bankruptcy.
This troubling trend continues post-bankruptcy, in addition to generous stock rewards. The Institute for
Policy Studies – United for a Fair Economy, reported in 2006 that executive wages were 411 times the
average pay of workers. At United, Mr. Tilton’s executive compensation is 1,000 times what a Flight
Attendant earns on average at the top of the pay scale, or over 2,000 the pay of a new hire.
The airline industry is expected to report record profits in 2007 after a traditionally slow first quarter.
The Air Transport Association (ATA), an airline trade group, conservatively forecast industry annual
profits to be $4 billion this year, and some analysts predict that the industry could top the record profits
of approximately $5.4 billion set in 1999. The dedication, sweat and sacrifice of all United employees
have led United Airlines on the road toward sustained profitability. Shared sacrifice must now equal
shared rewards. We are insisting that United Airlines executives uphold this premise promulgated by
them during the course of bankruptcy and share the financial rewards management currently enjoys.
The House Financial Services Committee proposed legislation (H.R. 1257) would let shareholders
register disapproval of executive pay packages without the government directly regulating pay. This
legislation is a step in the right direction and we encourage you to support it. We also believe that more
must be done to provide solutions for workers who are suffering at the hands of executive greed.
We call on Congress to act and end the disparity that exists between worker and executive
compensation.
Sincerely,
Greg Davidowitch, President​

United Master Executive Council

 

[Galaxy]

LCCs have completely different missions than legacy carriers, they are apples and oranges. If LCCs attempted to accomplish what legacy carriers do, they are actually a lot less effiecient and could never pull it off and be profitable like legacy carriers are on international routes.

Even the most expensive CEO contract is pennies compared to a CBA and is a drop in the bucket compared to revenue. Not even a valid argument.

Well, I hate to tell ya that those apples are causing the oranges to go bankrupt because none of them will charge the true costs to cover expenses and make a profit.
Keep in mind that both groups agreed to the CBA. You make it sound like the union just did the old grab and run.
I understand you don't like unions...but unfortunatly in this and many other industries they are a much needed protection from greedy groups that would have them working for min wage.

 

[Galaxy]

April 9, 2007
RE: United Airlines CEO and executive compensation
Dear Representative:
The alarming growth in wage disparity between executives and workers in this country is in critical need
of Congressional attention. I call your attention to a gross example of this disparity that is emerging at
United Airlines, where I represent 17,000 Flight Attendants in the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA.
United Airlines CEO Glenn Tilton received $39.7 million in 2006, including salary, bonus, incentives,
perks, above-market returns on deferred compensation and the estimated value of stock options and
awards granted during the year. At the same time, United Flight Attendants continue to experience lifechanging
wage, healthcare and work rule concessions, along with termination of their pension plan.
Incredibly, Tilton’s 2006 compensation exceeded the airline’s entire annual profit of $25 million reported
by United’s parent company UAL, Inc (UAL).
The United CEO and senior executive compensation package outpaced other corporate executive
compensation by large margins. The Corporate Library, a corporate governance watchdog group,
surveyed the proxy filings of 1,000 large U.S. companies and found that overall CEO compensation in
increased at a rate of 16% in 2005 and 9.29% in 2006. By comparison, UAL Securities and Exchange
Commission filings show Tilton and his suite of senior executives received increases in compensation
equaling 40% on a year-over-year basis, as well as bonuses throughout the company’s bankruptcy.
This troubling trend continues post-bankruptcy, in addition to generous stock rewards. The Institute for
Policy Studies – United for a Fair Economy, reported in 2006 that executive wages were 411 times the
average pay of workers. At United, Mr. Tilton’s executive compensation is 1,000 times what a Flight
Attendant earns on average at the top of the pay scale, or over 2,000 the pay of a new hire.
The airline industry is expected to report record profits in 2007 after a traditionally slow first quarter.
The Air Transport Association (ATA), an airline trade group, conservatively forecast industry annual
profits to be $4 billion this year, and some analysts predict that the industry could top the record profits
of approximately $5.4 billion set in 1999. The dedication, sweat and sacrifice of all United employees
have led United Airlines on the road toward sustained profitability. Shared sacrifice must now equal
shared rewards. We are insisting that United Airlines executives uphold this premise promulgated by
them during the course of bankruptcy and share the financial rewards management currently enjoys.
The House Financial Services Committee proposed legislation (H.R. 1257) would let shareholders
register disapproval of executive pay packages without the government directly regulating pay. This
legislation is a step in the right direction and we encourage you to support it. We also believe that more
must be done to provide solutions for workers who are suffering at the hands of executive greed.
We call on Congress to act and end the disparity that exists between worker and executive
compensation.
Sincerely,
Greg Davidowitch, President​

United Master Executive Council

But DL...B19 said it was the unions fault...

If he said it is so it must be....A LIE!

 

[Galaxy]

B19 said a CEO contract a drop in the bucket....


United Airlines CEO Glenn Tilton received $39.7 million in 2006,
Incredibly, Tilton’s 2006 compensation exceeded the airline’s entire annual profit of $25 million reported
by United’s parent company UAL, Inc (UAL).


That's a big UPSIDE DOWN bucket.

 

[dime line]

yea how is it a CEO can make more than the COMPANY? I don't get that one. Dam union, thats what!!

 

[dime line]

Lets not forget, FLOPS (Shtffing rule) was crying poor, broke, and everything else, but yet we still had money to fly salesman (and there wives, and girlfriends) on personal shopping trips, and most of upperlevel management's families in the airplanes.

note: I have not problem with management using the plane, its the "were broke, were not making money" and using the planes for personal use that i have a problem with.

 

[waka]

I don't have to know the real issues at FLOPS. I do understand and have worked intensely with unions in the past, and they ALL work the same.

This is yet another statement that illustrates how out of touch you are with reality

One thing I do know, is that on this board NOTHING has been said about the 128 unless it's been prompted. Lots of chest beating to show how wonderful 1108 is regarding the 70, but not a single moral or ethical statement regarding the coworkers caught up in the same mass firing unless prompted.

FYI, they have families too. Their existance within the company has a purpose and reason, no different than a pilot, regardless of the job function they perform.

By not mentioning anything about these 128, it shows the continued selfishness nature of union supporters. To hell with everybody else, as long as they get their way.

There actually has been mention of the others. However, this is a forum for fractional pilots and the 1108 happens to be a local for pilot's union. (geeez! No one can be that stupid!) Anyway, again, show me one a airline that has an all encompassing union.....since you missed that in your question dodging modus operandi.

 

[waka]

You have a responsibilty to fly the airplane on the flight, that is all. By the time you get to the aircraft, all the hard work is done.

Who are the people that set up your procedures and programs, unions? NOT!

Who does the hiring, the training and purchases the equipment, computers and software to run the company, unions? NOT!

The entire infrastructure of any company, airline or otherwise is designed and maintained by non-union workers.

You and those around you depend on non-union workers for your mere existance as a pilot. It's a non-union worker that writes your paycheck and a non-union worker that signs your paycheck.

Your thinking that it takes a union pilot to accomplish what non-union workers have prepared is laughable at best, yet when a union wants a raise they are willing to crap all over those non-union workers to get what they want.

On most accidents, the chain of events starts elsewhere and rarely with a pilot. Mechanics and support personnel have just as much responsibility than a pilot does, if not more. Ever hear of SMS?Safety starts with senior managment, not with the pilot.

The rest of the company has the responsiblity to ensure the safety for the entire company and passengers to an extent that is far greater than that of a pilot.

Unions don't help safety, they hinder safety.

It has been repeatedly demonstrated that FLOPS safety department has no teeth and it is the union's safety committee that has accomplished more for safety than management. Idiot.

Your first statement in the above quote affirms that the traveling public and aviators are better off that you lost your medical and are not in command or second in command of any aircraft. Did management have anything to do with how many survived on United 232? I said it before, the profession is better off without you......good riddance.

 

[skanza]

Lets not forget, FLOPS (Shtffing rule) was crying poor, broke, and everything else, but yet we still had money to fly salesman (and there wives, and girlfriends) on personal shopping trips, and most of upperlevel management's families in the airplanes.

note: I have not problem with management using the plane, its the "were broke, were not making money" and using the planes for personal use that i have a problem with.

Dime, on this one I totally agree with you. If the company is "broke" and everybody has to sacrafice to survive, that should mean everybody. Flying these people around for personal trips may be part of thier compensation package, but that doesn't mean they have to do it. What's it cost per hour to fly a Beechjet???