How much would a Falcon 7X First officer pay be

[Friend]

Hi

I saw an ad looking for a FO on the Falcon 7X in the middle east. I was wondering what would the pay be for that. Considering it is not a job in the US, it must be high if it is in the middle east, i am thinking anything around 100-120K a year

 

[hawkerflyer]

Pay in the Middle East has come down dramatically, again victim of supply and demand. Operators there know that a lot of guys are on the street and the contracts aren't what they used to be. Doubt you'll get 100+ in this market, especially as f/o. Some BBJ PIC deals are paying less than that. Good luck either way.

 

[2000Easyguy]

Pay in the Middle East has come down dramatically, again victim of supply and demand. Operators there know that a lot of guys are on the street and the contracts aren't what they used to be. Doubt you'll get 100+ in this market, especially as f/o. Some BBJ PIC deals are paying less than that. Good luck either way.

+ 1. Over 100 is high for a FO. Good luck though!

 

[Freight Dog]

Pay in the Middle East has come down dramatically, again victim of supply and demand. Operators there know that a lot of guys are on the street and the contracts aren't what they used to be. Doubt you'll get 100+ in this market, especially as f/o. Some BBJ PIC deals are paying less than that. Good luck either way.

Really depends on the operator and what type of a setup you have. I know of a few operators that do rotation in BBJ's that pay around 180k/year for PIC's. I also know of another BBJ operator that pays north of 200k for captains, and FO's are ranging between 120-140k.

YMMV...

 

[NCherches]

Whats 'YMMV' Stand for?...

 

[BoilerUP]

Your Mileage May Vary

 

[LegacyDriver]

+ 1. Over 100 is high for a FO. Good luck though!

G200 and SPX say they can find you a job flying a Falcon that pays more than $100K as a non-typed new hire . I'd ask them for some pimpage before going to the sand box.



(If you need me I'll be hiding in my bunker with my helmet donned and flame-proof longjohns on.)

 

[NCherches]

New to me... must be 'before my time'

 

[LegacyDriver]

new to me... Must be 'before my time'

Ayniagodtfowiam.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

G200 and SPX say they can find you a job flying a Falcon that pays more than $100K as a non-typed new hire . I'd ask them for some pimpage before going to the sand box.



(If you need me I'll be hiding in my bunker with my helmet donned and flame-proof longjohns on.)

No need to hide LD!...we know how to drag you out!...

The trick to these openings is that you have to send a resume!...and all 4 openings I knew of recently (2 left) would toss it once they saw airline experience or heard an applicant had difficulty landing a real jet in a little bitty crosswind....

LD on downwind in his Falcon...."fuel selector both, carb heat on, wing down, opposite rudder...."WINDCHECK!"

 

[LegacyDriver]

No need to hide LD!...we know how to drag you out!...

Well then I'm going back into lurk mode. Most of these people don't realize you are teasing me... They really think I can't fly. Now I know why I am not getting jobs.

The trick to these openings is that you have to send a resume!...and all 4 openings I knew of recently (2 left) would toss it once they saw airline experience or heard an applicant had difficulty landing a real jet in a little bitty crosswind....

Just reinforces my perception of the pure corporate pilot. Most of them are idiots IMHO. I'd hire any ex-RJ driver from my era before some Part 91 dweeb. I remember a certain ISBAO audit and the "high and mighty" corporate guys got the lowest marks. The 121 and military guys the highest.

And you really need to lay off the X-Wind thing. The 50 isn't the best plane in the world for X-Wind landings. Needs more rudder, more wing clearance, better steering, and that giant tail likes to weathervane, but once you figure out how to do it...meh. (ERJ still light years more capable in that regard. I don't know of any Embraer operators with a department policy limiting max crosswind component to less than 20 knots but I do know of it in the Falcon world. Just saying.)

LD on downwind in his Falcon...."fuel selector both, carb heat on, wing down, opposite rudder...."WINDCHECK!"

Okay you've had your fun. Just like everything else, too many people think you're serious and I don't need the bad press. Going back to lurk mode. Good chatting with you again though. Cheerio.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Well then I'm going back into lurk mode. Most of these people don't realize you are teasing me... They really think I can't fly. Now I know why I am not getting jobs.





Just reinforces my perception of the pure corporate pilot. Most of them are idiots IMHO. I'd hire any ex-RJ driver from my era before some Part 91 dweeb. I remember a certain ISBAO audit and the "high and mighty" corporate guys got the lowest marks. The 121 and military guys the highest.

And you really need to lay off the X-Wind thing. The 50 isn't the best plane in the world for X-Wind landings. Needs more rudder, more wing clearance, better steering, and that giant tail likes to weathervane, but once you figure out how to do it...meh. (ERJ still light years more capable in that regard. I don't know of any Embraer operators with a department policy limiting max crosswind component to less than 20 knots but I do know of it in the Falcon world. Just saying.)




Okay you've had your fun. Just like everything else, too many people think you're serious and I don't need the bad press. Going back to lurk mode. Good chatting with you again though. Cheerio.

Bad Press!!.....:laugh:.....yes, my Cessna 152 comments are surely keeping you from getting jobs

I have heard of a flight school having a "crosswind limitation" but never a flight department! Very interesting, guess ya gotta keep the kids on a short leash..

Dont Lurk LD - participate!

 

[NCherches]

Just reinforces my perception of the pure corporate pilot. Most of them are idiots IMHO. I'd hire any ex-RJ driver from my era before some Part 91 dweeb. I remember a certain ISBAO audit and the "high and mighty" corporate guys got the lowest marks. The 121 and military guys the highest.

I have flown with a good share of corporate guys as well as former airline guys and in my opinion Airline guys initially lack of skills required to 'work' a corporate jet. Sure they can fly-It would be scarey if they couldn't...Flying is the easiest part of many corporate gigs... It's the demanding passengers and a lack of a support system most corporate guys learn to work with.

I am always nervous when it comes to looking at a guy who has only flown airlines when hiring for a corporate gig. :smash:

 

[rumrnr78]

I have flown with a good share of corporate guys as well as former airline guys and in my opinion Airline guys initially lack of skills required to 'work' a corporate jet. Sure they can fly-It would be scarey if they couldn't...Flying is the easiest part of many corporate gigs... It's the demanding passengers and a lack of a support system most corporate guys learn to work with.

I am always nervous when it comes to looking at a guy who has only flown airlines when hiring for a corporate gig. :smash:[/QUOTE

Enjoy your next sim session with the corporate (only) guy who has been given a "progressive" checkride his entire career.

When I was at a regional (before CAT II training where we got a sim session a day before) I went into a sim cold, no practice, and was expected to know the profiles cold and fly to ATP standards.

Customer service skills? B.S., anyone can learn that and it quickly becomes part of the job. I actually treated my CRJ at the airlines like a corporate flight and have letters from pax and crew to show how I cared about the handling/outcome of a scheduled flight. I know for a fact there are regional captains who have the same and hopefully more!

Cheers-

 

[NCherches]

...at least in that sim session I won't have to hear about how big his 757 cockpit was and how hard it is to get into these citation cockpits lol... besides I fly single pilot so I only have to hear the voices in my head lol...

...I have no doubt that there are good regional crew memembers and even outstanding airline ones.... I will say that from my experience most guys who had a comfortable seat at an airline (...not regionals, anything is a step up from that!) were too above loading bags, filing flight plans on the cell phone while taxing in to make a 10 minute quick turn, and solving the last minute disasters that corporate owners sometimes create.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I have flown with a good share of corporate guys as well as former airline guys and in my opinion Airline guys initially lack of skills required to 'work' a corporate jet.

Key word: INITIALLY. The same set the Corporate guys lacked "INITIALLY" when they got hired. These also happen to be the easiest set of "skills" to get. A hellofa lot easier to learn than knowing how to fly the airplane safely and professionally (especially when it's on fire). I will tip my hat to my generation of RJ drivers (guys like CRJCA, Rum78, and the like) over any pure-91.

Sure they can fly-It would be scarey if they couldn't...Flying is the easiest part of many corporate gigs...

Uh huh.... That's why when the fire goes out or the weather gets bad or we have to go de-ice the 91 guys start sweating their b*lls off and dunno wtf to do.

I tell you, I'll take any RJ driver (or some of the wonderful ex-mil guys I flew with like Jihad, Bugman, or Smooth) over the Nator / Slats / Lubbock / Flameout / Shakedown / Digits / Palpatine 91 types any day. (Yes, there are some very good 91 guys. My former boss was a pure-91 guy and also a world-class aerobatic pilot so I sure don't sneeze at him in any way, but he's one of the best pilots I've known from any group. I would call him an exception.)

It's the demanding passengers and a lack of a support system most corporate guys learn to work with.

Demanding pax? Are you f'ing kidding me? Sorry dude, RJ drivers deal with far far far more demanding pax than anyone I've ever seen in either Corporate OR Charter. And learning Charter / Corporate "how to" customer service takes two rotations max. Anyone detail oriented enough to pass a 121 PIC Checkride is *MORE* than up to the task of "learning" how to take care of VIPs.

I am always nervous when it comes to looking at a guy who has only flown airlines when hiring for a corporate gig. :smash:

And that's a sh*tty attitude, no offense. You're eliminating some very good people with that thinking. Your loss.

 

[LegacyDriver]

...at least in that sim session I won't have to hear about how big his 757 cockpit was and how hard it is to get into these citation cockpits lol... besides I fly single pilot so I only have to hear the voices in my head lol...

LOL!!! NICE one!

...I have no doubt that there are good regional crew memembers and even outstanding airline ones.... I will say that from my experience most guys who had a comfortable seat at an airline (...not regionals, anything is a step up from that!) were too above loading bags, filing flight plans on the cell phone while taxing in to make a 10 minute quick turn, and solving the last minute disasters that corporate owners sometimes create.

If they're too above it then they just are that. I have seen more than my fair share of pure-corporate guys at the Death Star that wouldn't get up to help the VIPs in the back. "I'm not fixing that guy his coffee. That's beneath my dignity." (Used to piss my boss off that there were guys like that but what could he do about it?)

 

[LegacyDriver]

When I was at a regional (before CAT II training where we got a sim session a day before) I went into a sim cold, no practice, and was expected to know the profiles cold and fly to ATP standards.

Customer service skills? B.S., anyone can learn that and it quickly becomes part of the job. I actually treated my CRJ at the airlines like a corporate flight and have letters from pax and crew to show how I cared about the handling/outcome of a scheduled flight. I know for a fact there are regional captains who have the same and hopefully more!

Cheers-

Agreed. Also thanks for the kind words, Rum. You are great guy to fly with and always super prepared. Made my job very easy when we flew together.

This debate reminds me of when Palpatine ordered people to limit pitch angle on rotation to less than called for by the performance profile. When one of the ex-mil guys asked why he was told, "Because we are concerned about passenger comfort."

His reply was classic: "How comfortable will they be if we hit something?"

Safety first, right? Please. Part 91 has a tendency to take its eye of what is important: FLY THE D*MNED PLANE. Just my opinion.

 

[NCherches]

...I must be doing something right, im still employeed.

...On a side note we don't de-ice. It's way too expensive to de-ice a citation for pleasure flying.

 

[BoilerUP]

Hangar is a LOT cheaper for a light jet than a deice...but deice if you *need* it.

 

[DC3Flyer]

Key word: INITIALLY. The same set the Corporate guys lacked "INITIALLY" when they got hired. These also happen to be the easiest set of "skills" to get. A hellofa lot easier to learn than knowing how to fly the airplane safely and professionally (especially when it's on fire). I will tip my hat to my generation of RJ drivers (guys like CRJCA, Rum78, and the like) over any pure-91.

So you are saying that your "RJ drivers" are more capable than a pure part 91 pilot on a trip multi week trip around the world? I didn't realize that flying between Detroit and Dayton gave you the skills needed for that type of flying. Also, do you really believe that the customer service experience is the same for a typical airline passenger compared to the pax on a "part 91" corporate airplane? You're an idiot.....

 

[Freight Dog]

My only concern with hiring a former 121 pilot is that he/she will severely lowball when it comes to compensation because that's what they're used to. The employer will offer them twice of what they made at a regional, and they'll jump for joy while the rest of us will shake our heads in disgust. Ignorance is bliss...

Other than that... I'd almost prefer someone who has 121 background over someone who's never flown anything bigger than a light jet.

 

[LegacyDriver]

So you are saying that your "RJ drivers" are more capable than a pure part 91 pilot on a trip multi week trip around the world? I didn't realize that flying between Detroit and Dayton gave you the skills needed for that type of flying.

That's the easy part. I went from 121 to 135 then to 91. My 121 experience made the transition a breeze. The city pairs don't matter. It's the training and the standardization that do.

Also, do you really believe that the customer service experience is the same for a typical airline passenger compared to the pax on a "part 91" corporate airplane? You're an idiot.....

And you're a swell guy. :erm:

I'd say 99% of the guys and gals I flew with who were 121 and military were first rate and I wouldn't be afraid to put my kids in the back of the plane with 'em... Whereas about a third of the pure 91 pilots out there couldn't find the fire handle with both hands and a pointer. (Dual engine flameouts, golfballing airplanes after flying under anvils, driving off of taxiways into the grass, missing hold short instructions, not knowing how to de-ice, brain locking on depresses, inability to handle V1 Engine Fires--in the sim--etc. were *ALL* Part 91 guys. I never saw a single 121 pilot flub that up.)

Flying between any two points demands two things: SAFETY and STANDARDIZATION. Outside of that I don't care if it is Memphis to Nashville or New York to Kuwait City a 121 crew is at a base-level safer and more highly trained.

 

[LegacyDriver]

...I must be doing something right, im still employeed.

Or you just caught the cycle right. Not everyone is so fortunate. Be thankful not boastful.

 

[NCherches]

Or you just caught the cycle right. Not everyone is so fortunate. Be thankful not boastful.

I don't think I caught any cycle... I have been flying steadly and securely now for some time (im only 27) but I have made smart decisions, worked hard, and earned everything I have...

Not going to lie... when the weather is bad and im in anything 'Regional Jet' I am a little nervous knowing that those guys have little experience, make less than 75K combined.... I'd put my family on a business jet over a regional ANYDAY!

 

[LegacyDriver]

I don't think I caught any cycle... I have been flying steadly and securely now for some time (im only 27) but I have made smart decisions, worked hard, and earned everything I have...

Not going to lie... when the weather is bad and im in anything 'Regional Jet' I am a little nervous knowing that those guys have little experience, make less than 75K combined.... I'd put my family on a business jet over a regional ANYDAY!

27? Sheee-it, dude. You got a lot to learn.

Those RJ guys you denigrate are better trained than you are I'd bet.

 

[BoilerUP]

Not going to lie... when the weather is bad and im in anything 'Regional Jet' I am a little nervous knowing that those guys have little experience, make less than 75K combined.... I'd put my family on a business jet over a regional ANYDAY!

I'm the same age you are...flying corporate just like you are...but you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the experience & compensation of today's "regional jet" crews.

 

[NCherches]

Ok, so I was maybe a little harsh on the Regional guys but lets face it when it comes to total flight time (experience) & compensation I still feel like my statements were accurate.

 

[DC3Flyer]

That's the easy part. I went from 121 to 135 then to 91. My 121 experience made the transition a breeze. The city pairs don't matter. It's the training and the standardization that do.




And you're a swell guy. :erm:

I'd say 99% of the guys and gals I flew with who were 121 and military were first rate and I wouldn't be afraid to put my kids in the back of the plane with 'em... Whereas about a third of the pure 91 pilots out there couldn't find the fire handle with both hands and a pointer. (Dual engine flameouts, golfballing airplanes after flying under anvils, driving off of taxiways into the grass, missing hold short instructions, not knowing how to de-ice, brain locking on depresses, inability to handle V1 Engine Fires--in the sim--etc. were *ALL* Part 91 guys. I never saw a single 121 pilot flub that up.)

Flying between any two points demands two things: SAFETY and STANDARDIZATION. Outside of that I don't care if it is Memphis to Nashville or New York to Kuwait City a 121 crew is at a base-level safer and more highly trained.

So when you're talking about all the safety and standardization of 121 crews how do you explain the following:

1. Colgan crew that stalled the airplane going into BUF
2. Pinnacle crew that zoomed their mighty CRJ to FL410 and then stalled
3. Comair crew that took off on the wrong runway in LEX
4. Trans state crew that tried to takeoff with only one engine running

That's just a few off the top of my head.

If you say that 1/3 of the part 91 pilots were clueless...just where are you working son? That could be part of the problem here....just sayin'.

 

[BoilerUP]

I still feel like my statements were accurate.

...but they're not.