How much would a Falcon 7X First officer pay be

[DC3Flyer]

Key word: INITIALLY. The same set the Corporate guys lacked "INITIALLY" when they got hired. These also happen to be the easiest set of "skills" to get. A hellofa lot easier to learn than knowing how to fly the airplane safely and professionally (especially when it's on fire). I will tip my hat to my generation of RJ drivers (guys like CRJCA, Rum78, and the like) over any pure-91.

So you are saying that your "RJ drivers" are more capable than a pure part 91 pilot on a trip multi week trip around the world? I didn't realize that flying between Detroit and Dayton gave you the skills needed for that type of flying. Also, do you really believe that the customer service experience is the same for a typical airline passenger compared to the pax on a "part 91" corporate airplane? You're an idiot.....

 

[Freight Dog]

My only concern with hiring a former 121 pilot is that he/she will severely lowball when it comes to compensation because that's what they're used to. The employer will offer them twice of what they made at a regional, and they'll jump for joy while the rest of us will shake our heads in disgust. Ignorance is bliss...

Other than that... I'd almost prefer someone who has 121 background over someone who's never flown anything bigger than a light jet.

 

[LegacyDriver]

So you are saying that your "RJ drivers" are more capable than a pure part 91 pilot on a trip multi week trip around the world? I didn't realize that flying between Detroit and Dayton gave you the skills needed for that type of flying.

That's the easy part. I went from 121 to 135 then to 91. My 121 experience made the transition a breeze. The city pairs don't matter. It's the training and the standardization that do.

Also, do you really believe that the customer service experience is the same for a typical airline passenger compared to the pax on a "part 91" corporate airplane? You're an idiot.....

And you're a swell guy. :erm:

I'd say 99% of the guys and gals I flew with who were 121 and military were first rate and I wouldn't be afraid to put my kids in the back of the plane with 'em... Whereas about a third of the pure 91 pilots out there couldn't find the fire handle with both hands and a pointer. (Dual engine flameouts, golfballing airplanes after flying under anvils, driving off of taxiways into the grass, missing hold short instructions, not knowing how to de-ice, brain locking on depresses, inability to handle V1 Engine Fires--in the sim--etc. were *ALL* Part 91 guys. I never saw a single 121 pilot flub that up.)

Flying between any two points demands two things: SAFETY and STANDARDIZATION. Outside of that I don't care if it is Memphis to Nashville or New York to Kuwait City a 121 crew is at a base-level safer and more highly trained.

 

[LegacyDriver]

...I must be doing something right, im still employeed.

Or you just caught the cycle right. Not everyone is so fortunate. Be thankful not boastful.

 

[NCherches]

Or you just caught the cycle right. Not everyone is so fortunate. Be thankful not boastful.

I don't think I caught any cycle... I have been flying steadly and securely now for some time (im only 27) but I have made smart decisions, worked hard, and earned everything I have...

Not going to lie... when the weather is bad and im in anything 'Regional Jet' I am a little nervous knowing that those guys have little experience, make less than 75K combined.... I'd put my family on a business jet over a regional ANYDAY!

 

[LegacyDriver]

I don't think I caught any cycle... I have been flying steadly and securely now for some time (im only 27) but I have made smart decisions, worked hard, and earned everything I have...

Not going to lie... when the weather is bad and im in anything 'Regional Jet' I am a little nervous knowing that those guys have little experience, make less than 75K combined.... I'd put my family on a business jet over a regional ANYDAY!

27? Sheee-it, dude. You got a lot to learn.

Those RJ guys you denigrate are better trained than you are I'd bet.

 

[BoilerUP]

Not going to lie... when the weather is bad and im in anything 'Regional Jet' I am a little nervous knowing that those guys have little experience, make less than 75K combined.... I'd put my family on a business jet over a regional ANYDAY!

I'm the same age you are...flying corporate just like you are...but you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the experience & compensation of today's "regional jet" crews.

 

[NCherches]

Ok, so I was maybe a little harsh on the Regional guys but lets face it when it comes to total flight time (experience) & compensation I still feel like my statements were accurate.

 

[DC3Flyer]

That's the easy part. I went from 121 to 135 then to 91. My 121 experience made the transition a breeze. The city pairs don't matter. It's the training and the standardization that do.




And you're a swell guy. :erm:

I'd say 99% of the guys and gals I flew with who were 121 and military were first rate and I wouldn't be afraid to put my kids in the back of the plane with 'em... Whereas about a third of the pure 91 pilots out there couldn't find the fire handle with both hands and a pointer. (Dual engine flameouts, golfballing airplanes after flying under anvils, driving off of taxiways into the grass, missing hold short instructions, not knowing how to de-ice, brain locking on depresses, inability to handle V1 Engine Fires--in the sim--etc. were *ALL* Part 91 guys. I never saw a single 121 pilot flub that up.)

Flying between any two points demands two things: SAFETY and STANDARDIZATION. Outside of that I don't care if it is Memphis to Nashville or New York to Kuwait City a 121 crew is at a base-level safer and more highly trained.

So when you're talking about all the safety and standardization of 121 crews how do you explain the following:

1. Colgan crew that stalled the airplane going into BUF
2. Pinnacle crew that zoomed their mighty CRJ to FL410 and then stalled
3. Comair crew that took off on the wrong runway in LEX
4. Trans state crew that tried to takeoff with only one engine running

That's just a few off the top of my head.

If you say that 1/3 of the part 91 pilots were clueless...just where are you working son? That could be part of the problem here....just sayin'.

 

[BoilerUP]

I still feel like my statements were accurate.

...but they're not.

 

[DC3Flyer]

So when you're talking about all the safety and standardization of 121 crews how do you explain the following:

1. Colgan crew that stalled the airplane going into BUF
2. Pinnacle crew that zoomed their mighty CRJ to FL410 and then stalled
3. Comair crew that took off on the wrong runway in LEX
4. Trans state crew that tried to takeoff with only one engine running

That's just a few off the top of my head.

If you say that 1/3 of the part 91 pilots were clueless...just where are you working son? That could be part of the problem here....just sayin'.

Let me also say for the record that I know and respect many great 121 pilots out there....I just don't agree with this guy's opinion on the whole....you've got great 91 and 121 pilots just like they're are weak ones on both sides as well.....

 

[Quimby]

I don't think I caught any cycle... I have been flying steadly and securely now for some time (im only 27) but I have made smart decisions, worked hard, and earned everything I have...

Not going to lie... when the weather is bad and im in anything 'Regional Jet' I am a little nervous knowing that those guys have little experience, make less than 75K combined.... I'd put my family on a business jet over a regional ANYDAY!

You've been reading the USA Today too much. Most RJ guys you trash have waaaaaayyyy more experience than you're giving them credit for.

You speak of them having "little" experience with your 5000+ hours. Might want to look in the mirror...

 

[fisherpilot]

I've flown 121, 135, and now 91. I believe the lack of customer service in a 121 is a load of B.S. This is purely an individual thing. I have flown with some great guys/gals in 121 that had great customer skills and some 135 and 91 guys that weren't that great. I think that when I was flying 80 hrs a month I felt way more comfortable flying than I do now, 5 yrs later, when I'm flying a part 91 corporate jet (fortune 500 gig) and only flying 7-10 hrs a month. Don't slam the regional or any other airline guys on their experience level. Sure some of the guys get hired at LOW times, but they don't stay that way. Now, I have no plans on going back to 121 unless it is for one of about 3 airlines (FedEx, Southwest, or UPS). I'm glad I did the 121 thing because I learned a lot and it was a great thing for my career.

In my opinion part 91 is the best one of the 3 as far as QOL and pay. I get a lot of time to spend with my wife and two young kids, but their are strong and weak pilots in every field of aviation, just as it is in every occupation out there.

 

[LegacyDriver]

So when you're talking about all the safety and standardization of 121 crews how do you explain the following:

1. Colgan crew that stalled the airplane going into BUF

Not good to speak ill of the dead but... You had a Captain with a history of failed checkrides that he managed to get by on. The thing that kept him from killing someone sooner was probably the standardization he had in the 121 and good F/Os. I don't know if this is true but I have a feeling he was more interested in chatting up the F/O than flying the thing. JMO.

2. Pinnacle crew that zoomed their mighty CRJ to FL410 and then stalled

COMPLETE disregard for SOP on an empty repositioning leg. Idiots regardless. They would have done the same on the 91 side. (We had a guy nearly prang a Falcon doing a high speed, low altitude takeoff in ground effect showing off for people on the ground. Part 91 dweeb all the way.)

3. Comair crew that took off on the wrong runway in LEX

Dark, unlit runway, right next to the right one (and no giant blinking X to warn the crew) with inaccurate taxi diagrams and a controller who wasn't helping. Mistake that could happen to anyone. Was corrected industry-wide with new procedures that were even adopted by some 91 outfits. (First passenger fatality accident in the history of the "Regional Jet"--CRJ/ERJ.)

4. Trans state crew that tried to takeoff with only one engine running

If it was an EMB they wouldn't have gotten four feet without all sorts of sh*t blaring at them. Again, a brain fart which happens. Saw a Falcon crew do a similar stunt in a 91 outfit. It happens.

That's just a few off the top of my head.

And if I listed all the mindlessly braindead things I've seen in part 91 as well we'd be here all month. At least when the handle turns red and screams "FIRE" I *KNOW* the average 121 driver will get the airplane on the ground in one piece if it can be done.

If you say that 1/3 of the part 91 pilots were clueless...just where are you working son? That could be part of the problem here....just sayin'.

I won't dispute that this could be a factor, but the 121 drivers and military guys that worked for the same outfit were all first rate. I've seen more than a few guys that went from 91 to 135 and they were equally clueless in many areas. People who bag 121 people don't have a clue what they're talking about.

 

[DC3Flyer]

I won't dispute that this could be a factor, but the 121 drivers and military guys that worked for the same outfit were all first rate. I've seen more than a few guys that went from 91 to 135 and they were equally clueless in many areas. People who bag 121 people don't have a clue what they're talking about.[/QUOTE]

I'm not bagging anybody....you've got great pilots on either side and weak ones alike...depends more on the person than where they are at in the industry...best of luck to everybody out there...end of discussion for me.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

91,121,135, etc etc it really just depends on the individual....the d-bags and whiners are USUALLY the first out the door and they tend to stay unemployed-underemployed far longer than most.....and dont understand why....:erm:

Nobody can stand to fly with a retard who cant shut up about his previous job or previous airplane and who has a comment or EXCUSE for everything!..When someone rates their job by the type of jet they fly it often tells you qol sucks!

I would personally fly anything if the job was good! And it was a Gulfstream.

 

[fisherpilot]

Nice! I'm still waiting on that Gulfstream job. One day, Hopefully!

 

[NCherches]

I'm with you Gulfstream... I'd fly anything if the QOL was great. But man I sure hope it has a Glass cockpit, not gonna lie.

 

[greed]

Let me also say for the record that I know and respect many great 121 pilots out there....I just don't agree with this guy's opinion on the whole....you've got great 91 and 121 pilots just like they're are weak ones on both sides as well.....

Very well said, I have flown 91, 91K, 121 and 135. I will say in all operations I have flown with true skilled professionals as well as with idiots that should not fly kites. What I believe is that the 121 guys are usually more standardized, however there are many great 91 operators that utilize standards also (on the flip side there are many that are ran like Rodeos full of cowboys).

In short, there are always people that should not be in the cockpit, no matter what type of operation it is.

My 3 1/2 Cents

 

[rumrnr78]

Very well said, I have flown 91, 91K, 121 and 135. I will say in all operations I have flown with true skilled professionals as well as with idiots that should not fly kites. What I believe is that the 121 guys are usually more standardized, however there are many great 91 operators that utilize standards also (on the flip side there are many that are ran like Rodeos full of cowboys).

In short, there are always people that should not be in the cockpit, no matter what type of operation it is.

My 3 1/2 Cents

A very nice post to end the thread!

Cheers- Rum