How is Life at Gojets?

[redbook]

even though I would have been a "no" voter myself.

Regardless, we can't do anything about it, now. I just think it's unfair to point fingers at new-hire GoJet pilots who had nothing to do with that vote or the proposal.

WOW,

You would have voted no....and then whipsawed yourself! But technically as a new gojet pilot you would have had nothing to do with it.

 

[TSA ERJ]

Well Options, you pointed out the Eagle situation but failed to address the real story in your response. You are right though, you had nothing to do with the proposal but you are an enabler of management and their anti-labor endeavors. Like it or not. Good luck to you.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

The company circumvented the spirit and intent of the tsa contract by creating an alter ego company.

Again. The U.S. courts disagree.

They did so "legally". Scabs cross picket lines "legally".

Actually it is illegal to circumvent a CBA. Doing so is illegal, therefore they did no such thing as it was proved such in court.

Scabs cross a picket line in violation of Union directives, going directly against the union's (pilot group's) wishes. There is no ban issued by any Union in interviewing and accepting jobs at Gojets.

If you did one minute of union work in your life, you would care and you would be concerned.

It is the baseless arguments and empty threats I am not concerned with. Because there is no reason to be concerned. Gojet is legitimate work. The dispute is between TSA pilots and management and has nothing to do with the Gojet pilots. When it does, I'll be concerned. Right now I just hope that as many furloughed TSA pilots as possible can get on there. It is not my fault they voted down a single list, nor my responsibility to avoid working there because of it. Just like every wholly owned regional pilot who holds a job and their major airline has pilots on furlough. That was what their pilots decided. With the definitions being used, American Eagle is just as much an alter ego as Gojet is. Any wholly owned would be. I can't be concerned with that, I have no control over it and neither does anyone.

 

[redbook]

Again. The U.S. courts disagree.



Options,

You know better. That is why you said you would vote NO.

But I guess you can surrender your morals and values to a court decision when it suits you.

Sounds like Flight Options management? Irony

 

[redbook]

A. There is no ban issued by any Union in interviewing and accepting jobs at Gojets.

The ALPA president at the time made it crystal clear, through press statements and rallies in STL that gojet was an alter ego carrier.

But I guess that wasn't enough. You needed to be banned!

 

[Freight Dog]

Freight Dog,

The regional versus mainline argument is simply muddying the waters by bringing up a messy issue that does not belong in an alter ego dispute.

Actually, it's the closest comparable issue surrounding mainline pilots - pilots flying as "EXPRESS" or "CONNECTION" for peanuts on a dollar. Another one is the whole Eagle vs. TSA issue, and you say it's a management decision, yet you say this isn't. See the double standard?

But OK... I'll settle for an answer to this:

ALPA filed a lawsuit against TSHoldings and lost; ALPA petitioned NMB to declare single carrier status between TSA and GoJet and NMB rejected it. ALPA never instituted a recruitment boycott of GoJet like they did with Cathay Pacific. So..... how did a pilot hired by GoJets today harm you in wake of NMB and legal decisions? There's no doubt that the initial group that started at GoJet back during those legal battles did so with intent to bypass seniority, and yes, you should shun those guys. However, my question pertains to those hired TODAY - in light of legal decisions rendered, how are they harming TSA pilots?

Can someone please answer?

 

[FO 4 Life]

The ALPA president at the time made it crystal clear, through press statements and rallies in STL that gojet was an alter ego carrier.

Even though DW might have said that, I don't think he really meant it. An ALPA MEC officer from another carrier was in one of the first classes there. He called ALPA national prior to going just to check if it was okay. They told him no problem.
YMMV

 

[Options_SLAVE]

WOW,

You would have voted no....and then whipsawed yourself! But technically as a new gojet pilot you would have had nothing to do with it.

Hmm. Nice try. Nice twisting on words. Obviously I would have in that situation, but you are cutting and pasting statements and that was not the situation as I presented it. I did not come from TSA, therefore that could not have happened. If I were at TSA I would have voted NO and if I were junior enough I'd be on the street. But, If the vote had passed I might NOT be on the street, I might find myself at Gojet with at least some seniority, which is my point.

I do not dispute that the company tried to institute things into the contract with the single list and therefore it was a whipsaw. That does not discount the fact that less TSA guys would be on the street if they had voted yes, nor does that discount the fact that since they voted NO on that, that pilots should not apply to work there, and the courts proved that there was no alter-ego airline being created, they were getting around AA's scope only.

This horse is dead. I've said my piece, I respect the TSA guys, understand their reasons for being angry but they should look at themselves and their situation vs. Eagle before casting stones at Gojet pilots, and I don't think Gojet pilots are alter-ego pilots. Disagree all you want, think what you want. Doesn't bother me, doesn't affect me. If there were union sanctions against Gojets or a recommended ban on applying there, I wouldn't have. There weren't any. There won't be any.

Gojet is one of the most decent places to go that is CURRENTLY HIRING, especially if you are a furloughed high-time pilot at the moment. If you disagree, don't apply there. And unless you are at a Major and got there from the military and did NOT fly for any regionals, ANY regional pilot is a whore, so to call me one for working at Gojet is moot and comical.

Out.

 

[redbook]

Actually, it's the closest comparable issue surrounding mainline pilots - pilots flying as "EXPRESS" or "CONNECTION" for peanuts on a dollar. Another one is the whole Eagle vs. TSA issue, and you say it's a management decision, yet you say this isn't. See the double standard?

But OK... I'll settle for an answer to this:

ALPA filed a lawsuit against TSHoldings and lost; ALPA petitioned NMB to declare single carrier status between TSA and GoJet and NMB rejected it. ALPA never instituted a recruitment boycott of GoJet like they did with Cathay Pacific. So..... how did a pilot hired by GoJets today harm you in wake of NMB and legal decisions? There's no doubt that the initial group that started at GoJet back during those legal battles did so with intent to bypass seniority, and yes, you should shun those guys. However, my question pertains to those hired TODAY - in light of legal decisions rendered, how are they harming TSA pilots?

Can someone please answer?

No quarter, no surrender. TSA pilots past and present have been affected by gojet. I just don't understand why some legal technicality should cause tsa pilots to have collective amnesia about an alter ego carrier designed to beat down an already beat down pilot group.

TSA pilots made the hard choice. NO to the whipsaw. No regrets. The easy way is not always the right way, and we have paid a big price for taking a principled stand. So we will not forget. Never.

 

[redbook]

Hmm. Nice try. Nice twisting on words. Obviously I would have in that situation, but you are cutting and pasting statements and that was not the situation as I presented it. I did not come from TSA, therefore that could not have happened. If I were at TSA I would have voted NO and if I were junior enough I'd be on the street. But, If the vote had passed I might NOT be on the street, I might find myself at Gojet with at least some seniority, which is my point.

I do not dispute that the company tried to institute things into the contract with the single list and therefore it was a whipsaw. That does not discount the fact that less TSA guys would be on the street if they had voted yes, nor does that discount the fact that since they voted NO on that, that pilots should not apply to work there, and the courts proved that there was no alter-ego airline being created, they were getting around AA's scope only.

This horse is dead. I've said my piece, I respect the TSA guys, understand their reasons for being angry but they should look at themselves and their situation vs. Eagle before casting stones at Gojet pilots, and I don't think Gojet pilots are alter-ego pilots. Disagree all you want, think what you want. Doesn't bother me, doesn't affect me. If there were union sanctions against Gojets or a recommended ban on applying there, I wouldn't have. There weren't any. There won't be any.

Gojet is one of the most decent places to go that is CURRENTLY HIRING, especially if you are a furloughed high-time pilot at the moment. If you disagree, don't apply there. And unless you are at a Major and got there from the airlines, ANY regional pilot is a whore, so to call me one for working at Gojet is moot.

Out.

We disagree, obviously. TSA pilots are well aware of the Eagle situation and ultimately those airplanes are being returned as they should.

You said your piece, and I just wish you hadn't gone to gojet. You are in a bind, and these are terrible times. (This last post of yours really confused me....its late)Good luck and I don't mean that sarcastically.

 

[Freight Dog]

Redbook, TSA pilots fought a good and honorable fight. I applaud them and I supported them while this was going on. No questions there...

I just don't understand why some legal technicality should cause tsa pilots to have collective amnesia about an alter ego carrier designed to beat down an already beat down pilot group.

While you are correct in that you shouldn't have an amnesia for those first GoJet pilots since their clear intention was a seniority grab, you are also wrong in your rebuke of pilots who applied and got hired by GoJet AFTER the decision was rendered - legally, GoJet is a separate airline from TSA.

 

[redbook]

Redbook, TSA pilots fought a good and honorable fight. I applaud them and I supported them while this was going on. No questions there...



While you are correct in that you shouldn't have an amnesia for those first GoJet pilots since their clear intention was a seniority grab, you are also wrong in your rebuke of pilots who applied and got hired by GoJet AFTER the decision was rendered - legally, GoJet is a separate airline from TSA.

Thanks for the support Freight Dog. I guess we will have to disagree on the second part of your statement. I will concede that the original gojet pilots have a special place in hell. BTW, I always enjoyed reading your posts during the age 65 debacle.

 

[rtmcfi]

Can someone please answer me this:

Why should someone boycott GoJet considering that ALPA's lawsuit got thrown out and NMB single carrier petition was rejected by NMB?

Please, before you say anything about the plight of TSA pilots, don't forget to include the plight of mainline pilots who lost their jobs due to regional pilots' willingness to fly a jet for $22/hour and captains on that jet making what a mainline 2nd year FO makes.

Those mainline pilots voted to allow relaxation of scope. They created alter-ego flying. The TSA pilots voted not to allow alter-ego flying. A misguided court ruling does not excuse anyone.

Legal does not equal right. There are lots of cases overturned every year. Morally, nothing changed in any of those cases. The people on each side of the aisle were no more or less morally correct before or after the cases were overturned. Relying on the courts for moral guidance is asinine.

 

[dollacrackho]

Wow this thread is sickening. i really need to get out of this industry. I never thought i would hear so many people rationalizing gojets disgusting vile existence. Hey the taliban is buying some airplanes and hiring street captains. wow where do i sign up?

 

[MDWCrashPad]

Wow, I thought I was asking a simple, noncontroversial question. As I said I was totally ignorant about Gojets when I heard about the open house (I was an hour late and missed the entire presentation, all I got was the interview and an application).

Without commenting upon any of the prior posts, I must say that the union/antiunion situation has become very complicated since my days at Pan Am.

I used to listen to my crashpad mates in NY who were all former National Pilots and their paranoia about the Pan Am guys (National guys got the deal of the century in the merger but would never admit it).

When Delta took our Atlantic routes and the NY Shuttle, the pilots of Delta were pretty fair to us. But then Delta caused the shutdown of the remaining Pan Am. Delta would not even interview any of us former Pan Am guys after that. I was torn between the fairness in taking pilots with the routes and Delta ALPA not stopping their company from blackballing the rest of us.

And just recently ATA purchased World and Northamerican and then closed down ATA. The assets of ATA used for the purchase. Lots of issues there. It hurts.

Now Northwest and ALPA get together and form Compass. From what I understand they even came up with a contract before it was started. Lots of worms in that can.

Just a 3 beer thought here. There is, and will be a growing pilot shortage. When I interview there are guys like me with 17000 hours and guys with up to 1200 hours. There does not seem to be anyone in the middle without a job. The companies stress market rate for pilots. ALPA needs to agree and therefore insist that they get rid of the stupid training contracts. If they want to keep them from leaving, raise the salaries.

I just put that in here to start a discussion.

Thanks everyone. Of course nobody had answered my original questions.