How is Life at Gojets?

[BigLebowski]

OK, I'm all eyes and ears. Why don't you educate me? But before you do, please allow me to share with you what I know about the situation:

Hulas, your CEO, wanted to fly 70-seaters for UAL, but it would have been a violation of APA scope clause which would end your American Connection operation (BTW..think Eagle pilots look fondly at what they consider their flying being flown by TSA?).

Hulas, along with your holding company created GoJets to get around APA's scope, and approached TSA ALPA to fly on that other certificate if they'd agree to certain pay rates for 70-seat RJ's which TSA ALPA found to be subpar. Hulas then went ahead with his new certificate but since TSA ALPA wasn't interested in what he had to offer, he pressed on without TSA ALPA. Yes, it was perceived to be an alter ego carrier by ALPA. Some TSA pilots jumped at an opportunity to bypass seniority, and get captain slots at the new venture. THAT part along with the intentions to bypass the seniority were without a doubt despicable acts by the first cadre of pilots at GoJet.

ALPA then sued contending that Hulas was violating TSA pilots' scope by creating an alter ego airline, and also petitioned the NMB for single-carrier ruling for TSA and GoJet. Interesting to note is that ALPA didn't institute a recruitment ban for GoJets even before the NMB petition.

Unfortunately, Hulas appeared to have dotted all his I's and crossed all his T's and he did it well enough so that ALPA lawsuit got thrown out, and NMB ruled that it was not a single carrier.

This happened 3 years ago or so, right?

Fast track to the summer of 2008, GoJets pilots are represented by Teamsters, have similar pay and work rules to the rest of the regional industry. NMB ruled that it isn't a single carrier hence no combining of the lists - right or wrong, but the rule came against ALPA. Also, there is no recruitment ban currently in place by ALPA/IFALPA against GoJets. In the meanwhile, several career airlines and by that I mean airlines where 2nd year FO made more money than regional captains, went under putting thousands of pilots on the street.

I could understand the beef against the initial cadre of GoJets pilots because their INTENT was to bypass seniority. But post-ruling, post-unionizing, 3 years later, it's hardly the same argument. Your anger and blame are misplaced, IMO.

Now, please tell me what did I miss...

finally someone who tells it like it really happened. This is the truth.

 

[CX880]

Did you not hear their callsigns blocked on the radio and clearances stepped on on purpose? Do you not see them without an ID badge on in the airport sometimes because they don't want you to "know?"

NO. ***********************************!

 

[Options_SLAVE]

I am a recently FIRED flight options pilot - for those who don't know, Flight Options has been in a union battle for the past 4 years trying to get their first (Teamsters) contract. The Union has finally gained the solidarity they need and have been putting the hurt on the company. In a desperate move to retaliate, Flight Options fired 70 pilots OUT of seniority, by picking 70 of the most ardent Union supporters. Pilots with over 10 years in the company were fired, meanwhile at the same time new-hires were in training. They are still hiring new-hires. Their hope was that the Union would crumble. It backfired, lawsuits will be filed and won easily, etc., but it was definitely a union busting move on their part that put me out on the street.

I am now fortunately hired at GoJet and I am a CQFO, which is a "captain qualified first officer". This means you are trained as a Captain, and is just really a cheaper way I think for them to use you on reserve as you can fly in either seat. However, the current seniority list at Gojet does not have very many pilots who meet the time requirements to upgrade, and they are growing. They need Captains. From what I hear all the CQFO's are actually holding Captain slots before they hit the line and there are no CQFO's on the line. By contract they can only have one CQFO per airframe. CQFO's are paid a blended (average) rate between the Captain and FO rates if they fly as an FO and the Captain rate if they fly in the left seat.

Just about every airline in the business is furloughing pilots. Just like most, I have my application in at Net Jets as well as Southwest, etc. I do however have a family and children to feed, and a house to pay for. The only reason I work at GoJet is because I got hired into the left seat. I also am a member in good standing leaving Flight Options as a Teamster and moving right into the Teamsters at Gojet.

The attitude of some of these TSA people is pretty immature. I also know quite a few people at TSA and the attitude there is not as "bad" as those on this board would like it to be. There are a small handful, probably the same ones that post on here. I have yet to find a GoJet pilot who has told me they were denied a jumpseat.

I can tell you that I happen to know that many American Eagle pilots views the TSA pilots with the same discontent or disdain as the TSA pilots view GoJet pilots. There are what, 10 or 12 ERJ's that American bought for Eagle that TSA are flying. That's about 100 pilot jobs that Eagle pilots think should be theirs, and yes, there are Eagle pilots on the street looking at TSA "Eagle" jets in the air. Well, GoJet has 15 airplanes and now are looked up at by furloughed TSA pilots. One pilot's fortune is another's misfortune. That's the way it's been since the majors voted away the flying and gave the jets to the regionals.

The bottom line is, GoJet is a legitimate airline regardless of what a few TSA pilots think. GoJet exists because of American's scope, not to get around ALPA. A single list was voted down by the TSA pilots. My understanding is that there were loop holes that were in the proposal they couldn't live with. So they voted it down. Good for them, their voice spoke. Personally, I think that was a mistake, as look now, TSA is furloughing. If there was one list, perhaps it wouldn't be perfect, perhaps the pay wouldn't be where you want it yet, but those furloughed pilots, or many of them, would have jobs right now instead of drawing unemployment. You could have voted yes and then negotiated for better wages, but that's just my opinion and I certainly am not a TSA pilot and would not dream of speaking for them or their reasons and respect their vote. But to now expect other pilots to not work there because of it is simply not realistic nor warranted.

There was no ban or block by ALPA for pilots to interview or take jobs there, so you will see many furloughed or like in my case, union battle casualties - Union supporting pilots - who need SOME flying job to pay their bills. GoJet is a great opportunity for those with the experience to go right into the left seat. I would NEVER consider crossing a picket line as I am not only a Union supporter but a former Union leader in more than one union, including ALPA. I believe in solidarity and also in bettering the profession.

GoJet's CRJ7 pay rates are right under the CRJ9 pay rates at Pinnacle (and both those rates SUCK but are certainly higher than my State's unemployment checks). There is NO training contract that I know of. That may not be true if you are extremely low time, but I know of none and I signed no such contract. They have about 150 pilots on the list and that number will double by the end of 2009. They are one of the extremely few airlines, UNIONIZED airlines, that are hiring, right now. Their training is top notch and they run a good show from what I can tell, and are very professional as an airline.

GoJet had a jobfair in ORD for the ATA pilots who are on the street and hired every one of them that showed up, from what I was told. There are 3 in my class and a few more in the next class. The CQFO's that are being hired are high-experience guys.

The CQFO opportunity will be a short one. They currently are getting only about 2 pilots per month on the FO list that are qualifying for upgrade, which is forecast to be that way for like a year. There will be 10 to 12 more brand new next generation CRJ7's (with the 900 engines) coming on the property, which means that most of those left seaters will be new-hires. If you are a furloughed pilot GoJet is an excellent opportunity and in spite of what very few pilots are saying, GoJet pilots are NOT having problems jumpseating and are NOT having problems getting hired at other airlines such as AirTran, Southwest, etc.

Personally, I wish that every furloughed TSA pilot got hired at GoJet. Had they voted differently for a single list they would be. To dog a GoJet pilot for taking a job here in today's market, when there are literally thousands of pilots on the street and work becoming harder and harder to come by every day, with bankruptcies either in place or coming at ALL the majors, I think is barking up the wrong tree.

Every regional pilot took someone else's job - a job that was voted away by major airline pilots 20 years ago, and there are thousands of major airline pilots now on the street wishing he was flying in your seat, and yes, he will go where he can to feed HIS family. In fact, one of the ATA guys in my class was a TWA Captain, flowed back to Eagle and then went to ATA. Now he's at GoJet. The guy's a 76 CAPTAIN now flying for a regional. We can't change the world, it is what it is and we all must survive however we can.

It is stupid to point fingers at a GoJet pilot. We deserve to feed our families just like those TSA pilots who are flying Eagles' jets have the right to feed theirs. If I see a TSA pilot point his finger at me I will just get a mirror, I see my flying as no different than theirs. However, I can say that I have only been treated with the upmost respect from every TSA pilot I've seen, and I will give them the same respect. It is not theirs or my fault that the situation is what it is, and luckily, we are both providing for our families. And as a Union pilot, I will do everything I can to support my union and the profession, but to think that I should draw unemployment and not have a job rather than fly a GoJet plane because it makes a TSA regional pilot upset if I do is not going to happen. I violated no Union rules in doing so - I did what was necessary without violating any Union sanctions, and if a better job were to come along I would certainly consider it. For now, I'm thankful I have a job, thankful for the opportunity GoJet provided me and will give them the best service I possibly can, and I hope they continue to grow, and that as many furloughed TSA pilots as possible can get hired.

 

[Turtlesfly]

I am a recently FIRED flight options pilot - for those who don't know, Flight Options has been in a union battle for the past 4 years trying to get their first (Teamsters) contract. The Union has finally gained the solidarity they need and have been putting the hurt on the company. In a desperate move to retaliate, Flight Options fired 70 pilots OUT of seniority, by picking 70 of the most ardent Union supporters. Pilots with over 10 years in the company were fired, meanwhile at the same time new-hires were in training. They are still hiring new-hires. I am now hired at GoJet

Funny how you can't see the comparison between Flight Options people being fired out of seniority and new hires being trained at the same company - to the TSA/GoJets situation.

I do however have a family and children to feed, and a house to pay for.

typical union-busting defense.

The only reason I work at GoJet is because I got hired into the left seat.

Yeah, I'd hate to think you EARNED your Captain seat at an AIRLINE

The attitude of some of these TSA people is pretty immature.

Hate to tell you - lots of people outside of TSA hate GoJets.

There are a small handful, probably the same ones that post on here.

.

That's because the rest don't know jack about the industry we're in and therefore don't know who GoJets is - nor do some of them seem to care. I am beyond shocked at how little industry knowledge some people I fly with have.

The bottom line is, GoJet is a legitimate airline regardless of what a few TSA pilots think. GoJet exists because of American's scope, not to get around ALPA.

You're right - ALPA embraced it with open arms. Not. Since you're not ALPA you don't get the magazine to know that they were so upset that it made the cover of the issue a while back because the TSA ALPA people were pissed.

A single list was voted down by the TSA pilots. My understanding is that there were loop holes that were in the proposal they couldn't live with.

Yeah, SCOPE is one of those little "legal loopholes."

Personally, I think that was a mistake, as look now, TSA is furloughing. If there was one list, perhaps it wouldn't be perfect, perhaps the pay wouldn't be where you want it yet, but those furloughed pilots, or many of them, would have jobs right now instead of drawing unemployment.

Yeah, because everybody has a "family to feed" and shouldn't care about stupid things like pay.

I would NEVER consider crossing a picket line as I am not only a Union supporter but a former Union leader in more than one union, including ALPA.

Wait a minute - you're a union SUPPORTER? WTF??????

I believe in solidarity and also in bettering the profession.

which doesn't match your earlier paragraph about selling out because some job is better than none.

both those rates SUCK but are certainly higher than my State's unemployment checks).

Great! So if flying a CR9 is barely better than no job at all, then you're for it!

They are one of the extremely few airlines, UNIONIZED airlines, that are hiring, right now.

Shouldn't that tell you something?

If you are a furloughed pilot GoJet is an excellent opportunity and in spite of what very few pilots are saying

Would you include furloughed TSA pilots in that assesement?

To dog a GoJet pilot for taking a job here in today's market, when there are literally thousands of pilots on the street and work becoming harder and harder to come by every day, with bankruptcies either in place or coming at ALL the majors, I think is barking up the wrong tree.

So to summarize: since times are really tough - the best thing to do is step on the backs of the unionized pilots who tried to help the profession.

We deserve to feed our families just like those TSA pilots

This coming from a union leader? Translation: hey I gotta look out for number 1!

but to think that I should draw unemployment and not have a job rather than fly a GoJet plane because it makes a TSA regional pilot upset is not going to happen.

Make the TSA pilot UPSET? How about "out of a job," dip********************.

I violated no Union rules in doing so

Or your own conscience, apparently.

I did what was necessary without violating any Union sanctions

Well helping the profession wouldn't be included in that, either.

 

[masedogg19]

TF, you did nothing to refute anything that OS said.....your post just makes you look like a whining baby....try and pull your awesome quoting skills on some of Freight Dog's posts and see how well that works for you

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Funny how you can't see the comparison between Flight Options people being fired out of seniority and new hires being trained at the same company - to the TSA/GoJets situation.

Sorry you don't understand the difference. It is pretty significant. For one, there are not 2 airlines involved at Options, and Options is HIRING new-hires and FIRING union supporters. TSA voted DOWN a single seniority list, and is FURLOUGHING in the proper reverse seniority. If you think you are comparing apples to apples you are grossly mistaken. Then again, you are a 4,000 hr pilot who knows it all and has seen it all.

typical union-busting defense.

I was a union leader at 2 airlines, including flight options. I have bled for my pilot group and sacrificed my job for it and my Union's cause. Screw you.

Yeah, I'd hate to think you EARNED your Captain seat at an AIRLINE

Hate to burst your bubble Captain know-it-all, but this is not my first rodeo. I have about 2000 hours of 121 PIC time and have years sitting in the right seat. Then again, you know everything, don't you. You'd never make such an assumption that would make you look like a fool if you were wrong.

Hate to tell you - lots of people outside of TSA hate GoJets.

And lots of people outside of TSA hate TSA pilots. A lot of pilots hate XJT pilots. Hell. A lot of TSA pilots hate TSA pilots. Have yet to meet a GoJet pilot who hates GoJet. So what.

That's because the rest don't know jack about the industry we're in and therefore don't know who GoJets is - nor do some of them seem to care. I am beyond shocked at how little industry knowledge some people I fly with have.

You should be shocked at your reading comprehension skills. You also seem to be one of those "I know more than you" pilots who has an opinion on everything and you prove in your post that you easily jump to the wrong conclusions - such pilots easily annoy the hell out of other pilots, and they probably think the same thing about you and your "industry knowledge" as you spew off your own "knowledge". I've probably spent more money in ALPA union dues and would bet a paycheck that I've spent more time volunteering for my unions than you have. You should be cautious in jumping to conclusions, it makes you look stupid.

You're right - ALPA embraced it with open arms. Not. Since you're not ALPA you don't get the magazine to know that they were so upset that it made the cover of the issue a while back because the TSA ALPA people were pissed.

So?

Yeah, SCOPE is one of those little "legal loopholes."

Yeah? How'd that work out for them? I'm not debating you on the TSA vote, I respect it.

Yeah, because everybody has a "family to feed" and shouldn't care about stupid things like pay.

Tell you what. Make my mortgage payments until Southwest calls me and I'll quit.

Wait a minute - you're a union SUPPORTER? WTF??????

Yeah, there's that reading comprehension thing again I mentioned.

which doesn't match your earlier paragraph about selling out because some job is better than none.

When (if you haven't already) you hit the bread lines you'll understand it better. GoJet is not struck work. Grow up.

Great! So if flying a CR9 is barely better than no job at all, then you're for it!

Uh, yeah. The upgrade times at the unemployment office are indefinite. A CR9 job is definitely better than no job at all. I hope you never have to realize that.

Shouldn't that tell you something?

Only that you debate emotionally and with no substance and that your debating skills are immature.

Would you include furloughed TSA pilots in that assesement?

What assessment?

So to summarize: since times are really tough - the best thing to do is step on the backs of the unionized pilots who tried to help the profession.

No, that would be putting words in my mouth. To summarize, the fact that the TSA pilots voted down to be a single carrier does not mean that furloughed pilots should not look at working at GoJet. However, let me turn the question around on you like you did: Do you think the best thing was for AA to give those 10 Jets that were for Eagle to the less-paid TSA pilots to fly instead - how exactly did that help the profession? Tell me why you think that the TSA pilots accepting those airframes and those jobs is ANY different than GoJet pilots flying their airframes? BOTH situations were due to American's actions and had NOTHING to do with the pilot groups involved, so yes, I'm all ears, tell me why there is any difference.

This coming from a union leader? Translation: hey I gotta look out for number 1!

Ignorance. You have no idea what I've sacrificed. And quite frankly, just like YOU (assuming you are TSA, which I don't even know, but let's assume you do) sit in Eagle's Jet, in your opinion, I'm sitting in yours. How are you any better than I?

Make the TSA pilot UPSET? How about "out of a job," dip********************.

Again. I'm sure there are many a furloughed Eagle pilot who says the EXACT same thing about TSA.

Or your own conscience, apparently.

Oh, my conscience is clean, son.

Well helping the profession wouldn't be included in that, either.

Says someone who is obviously young and not been in this industry very long, is quick to make assumptions and jump into a debate without knowing all the facts. You have some serious denial problems thinking a TSA pilot is any better than a GoJet pilot in regards to "the profession" and have exposed yourself as someone who speaks out of emotion and little reason. Just ask any furloughed Eagle pilot if THEY see any difference between the two.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Options,
Embarrassing, just embarrassing! You are simply an airplane whooore, nothing more and certainly alot less. Don't ask for my jumpseat, buy the pass, cause your gonna miss your show if you ask for my jumpseat, and yes I am a Captain who flows through ORD regularly. I have friends at TSA who won't be affected, except for the fact the seniority list is shrinking and your list is growing. When Hulas gets done with TSA, he will start on you guys, and the best part is he is Indian(dot not feather), and hates all pilots, and will jack you like you have never been jacked before. You see what he is doing to TSA, is gonna be your future, don't kid yourself, the caste system is his way of life, and guess what you are 'the help" and only getting more expensive every anniversary date. Enjoy it while you can you will get yours, and I will enjoy that like nothing else.
PBR

 

[McNugget]

Sweet, Flight Options is hiring?

 

[redbook]

go to gojet and become a scumbag. simple.

It was created as an alter ego airline to whipsaw tsa pilots.

There is no 6 month limit to the whipsaw. TSA furloughing is a direct result of that whipsaw.

Those that "feed their families" at gojet, have done so by joining an alter ego carrier. There are consequences.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

Options,
Embarrassing, just embarrassing! You are simply an airplane whooore, nothing more and certainly alot less. Don't ask for my jumpseat, buy the pass, cause your gonna miss your show if you ask for my jumpseat, and yes I am a Captain who flows through ORD regularly. I have friends at TSA who won't be affected, except for the fact the seniority list is shrinking and your list is growing. When Hulas gets done with TSA, he will start on you guys, and the best part is he is Indian(dot not feather), and hates all pilots, and will jack you like you have never been jacked before. You see what he is doing to TSA, is gonna be your future, don't kid yourself, the caste system is his way of life, and guess what you are 'the help" and only getting more expensive every anniversary date. Enjoy it while you can you will get yours, and I will enjoy that like nothing else.
PBR

Show me a single pilot in the industry who is any different. You are no less "the help" than I am. You are no less a whore than I am. GoJet is not struck work. I do not condone or agree with the proposal that was offered the TSA pilots. I would have also voted no. However, the fact that they voted no does not mean I nor anyone else should not have applied and taken a job at GoJet.

There is not much I wouldn't do to support my family. Crossing a picket line is about the only thing I would not do. I would dig ditches to support my family. You have the luxury of not having to be unemployed and looking for a job in a market that floods more every day with high-time pilots. Even GoJet won't even look at your resume now if you have less than 4500 hours, and thanks to larger carriers like Aloha and ATA going OUT OF BUSINESS there are MANY, very high time pilots out there looking for work. Get real and grow up.