How is FAR 117 transition going

[Jim]

What you have stated is not true for any group that has CX pay in their contract. FDP extensions only apply to operational delays. So if you extend more then 2 hours on day one of a trip. You can not be extended more then 2 hours again until you have a 30 hour break. So if operationally you need to be extend again without the 30 hour break. You are done and going home/hotel. These extensions have nothing to do with the scheduling/ pick up FDP. So you were either legal to pick it up or not.

FIFY. You can be extended 30 mins as often as you will accept.

 

[waveflyer]

How often would that happen score- w/o our rig kicking in?

Rigs kick in for me all the time with the schedules we had

 

[MECH]

FIFY. You can be extended 30 mins as often as you will accept.

Not true. Not until you hit 31 minutes does PIC concurance required. 30 minutes is an automatic extension that the company can use for operational reasons out side of their control.

What I stated is completely true from 31 minute to 2 hour extension.

 

[MECH]

FIFY. You can be extended 30 mins as often as you will accept.

Next time you quote me don't change my words!!! You can never be legally extended more then two hours.

 

[Jim]

Next time you quote me don't change my words!!! You can never be legally extended more then two hours.

Sorry, I miss read what you wrote. I thought you were saying only one 30 min extension between 30 hour rest periods. You are right, there can be as many 30 minute or less extensions as you will accept but only one extension between 31 minutes and 2 hours.

BTW, FIFY tells everyone I am changing your words so they know it is not what you wrote. In this case I didn't Fix It For You.....

 

[NuGuy]

Not true. Not until you hit 31 minutes does PIC concurance required. 30 minutes is an automatic extension that the company can use for operational reasons out side of their control.

What I stated is completely true from 31 minute to 2 hour extension.

I'd like to see your evidence of that.

FAR 117.19 (nor the Federal Register Clarifications) makes no mention of what you are saying. It simply says that extensions UP TO 2 hours require both the PIC and company concurrence.

Once you are beyond 30 minutes, other items come into play...the once per 30 hour rest, reporting to the FAA the nature of the extension and so on.

There is NO mention that a 30 minute extension can happen ONLY with the company's say so.

BTW, extensions may NOT violate cumulative limits.

Nu

 

[MECH]

I'd like to see your evidence of that.

FAR 117.19 (nor the Federal Register Clarifications) makes no mention of what you are saying. It simply says that extensions UP TO 2 hours require both the PIC and company concurrence.

Once you are beyond 30 minutes, other items come into play...the once per 30 hour rest, reporting to the FAA the nature of the extension and so on.

There is NO mention that a 30 minute extension can happen ONLY with the company's say so.

BTW, extensions may NOT violate cumulative limits.

Nu

Look at page 2 of the preamble. It is item number 6 "Extension of Flight Duty Periods".

 

[CaptainSpaz]

Agreed. I'm getting the impression some airlines or unions are telling the pilots something contrary regarding the 30 minutes and PIC concurrence?

I'd like to see your evidence of that.

FAR 117.19 (nor the Federal Register Clarifications) makes no mention of what you are saying. It simply says that extensions UP TO 2 hours require both the PIC and company concurrence.

Once you are beyond 30 minutes, other items come into play...the once per 30 hour rest, reporting to the FAA the nature of the extension and so on.

There is NO mention that a 30 minute extension can happen ONLY with the company's say so.

BTW, extensions may NOT violate cumulative limits.

Nu

 

[NuGuy]

Look at page 2 of the preamble. It is item number 6 "Extension of Flight Duty Periods".

That is simply saying in designing the actual final rule, the FAA thought providing a 30 minute buffer for each FDP was appropriate and reasonable. They are supporting their decision process as opposed to what was published in the NPRM.

However, the actual mechanism of extending the FDP for ANY length of time, up to and including 2 hours, requires both the PIC and the company's approval.

Section 117.19 delineates the exact mechanism of this extension:

? 117.19 Flight duty period extensions.​

​

​

​

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(a) For augmented and unaugmented operations, if unforeseen operational​

circumstances arise prior to takeoff:​

(1) The pilot in command and the certificate holder may extend the​

maximum flight duty period permitted in Tables B or C of this part up to 2 hours.​

Note that it does NOT say in 117.19.a.1 is that the certificate holder may extend the maximum flight duty period permitted in Tables B or C of this part up to 30 minutes.

Nor does the 117 interpretation published by the FAA in the Federal Register support your viewpoint.

Everything that I have heard is that the PIC needs to approve any extension of any length (and may, later, rescind such extension should events warrant). Certainly if there was verbage to support otherwise, managements would be all over it.

Nu

 

[scoreboardII]

How often would that happen score- w/o our rig kicking in?

Rigs kick in for me all the time with the schedules we had

Rigs get you .73 pay.

I'm not saying it will happen all the time, just that before, you never had a duty day restriction which followed you around and could limit future work a week later, only 30/7.