How is FAR 117 transition going

[densoo]

What if you click 'NO' ??

Did you know that when you click "yes" you've also agreed to the 30-minute non-reportable extension to your duty day with no add pay? At one airline anyway.

 

[brokedash]

Well, it's not great, but not a meltdown...yet. New scheduling software seems to work pretty good for now. Now only if we could find some crews to fly...

 

[chqflyer]

RAH carriers lead the pack in cancellations and IROPS. This is the most epic CF I've ever witnessed. I'd hate to see what would've happened if we weren't "the most prepared" company for the 117 change. ?

 

[Junkflyer]

It may get worse in February when the 117 rules require a look back to the previous month.

 

[Singlecoil]

Also, the second you click yes is when the door will burst open and you will be tested for alcohol if someone smelled you at security. Prior to that, you could say you were going to call in sick.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Also, the second you click yes is when the door will burst open and you will be tested for alcohol if someone smelled you at security. Prior to that, you could say you were going to call in sick.

You have to self-certify when you check in for your day? Ours is an additional signature on the release, just prior to push.

Bubba

 

[densoo]

You have to self-certify when you check in for your day? Ours is an additional signature on the release, just prior to push.

Bubba

Many ways at UAL. On LCAL side (yes, almost 4 years after merger the systems aren't compatible) there is a click here to get paperwork or send a free text message on ACARS or call. LUAL side I believe signing release is FFD or ACARS prompt or call.

 

[Jetjockey]

Well, my career ( as it were ) was ended for me when :

A) My carrier went T.U.

B) I attempted retirement during the Great Recession.

C) I got old.

D) I got bored and joined a Flying Circus.

So, I'm still flying but I have the luxury of truly not giving a Flying "F" anymore, which is kind of fun...

Whine

I don't recall you giving a "flying F" when we flew together back in 2003!!!

 

[igneousy2]

So far it seems to be about a wash to me. This one mostly effects the regionals/international since I think most majors at least domestically, already had better work rules than what we had to gain from 117. For example, Alaska already had a 12:30 max scheduled duty day and 10 hour if encroached the WOCL, so the rules didn't help much except for off schedule ops. They closed the legal-start BS but now we can fly more in a day. Now SEA-SAN-Hawaii is legal.

I was thinking of sending an email to scheduling putting them on notice that I was declining all extensions until I retire. I think that would comply.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

You have to self-certify when you check in for your day? Ours is an additional signature on the release, just prior to push.

Bubba

I'm shocked you don't let the ramp certify you....like when you bought the FAA to approve rampers doing your walk arounds.

 

[DCAA320]

(yes, almost 4 years after merger the systems aren't compatible)

My buddy Barack hired your software guys for Obamacare, otherwise your stuff might be compatible, or not.

 

[densoo]

My buddy Barack hired your software guys for Obamacare, otherwise your stuff might be compatible, or not.

That explains it. When I checked in for my last flight I got a text confirming my doctor appointment.

 

[relief tube]

10 hours in the hotel sucks.....when your go home days 1st flight is now delayed 90 mins

 

[GogglesPisano]

Better 10 than 8. I've never been one of these "productivity" guys when it comes to layovers. What good are you to your family if you come home exhausted and out-of-shape. Have a meal, 9hrs of sleep, a good workout, breakfast. That's about 13-14 hrs. The idea of anything less than that gives me the CBGB's.

 

[flexpilot]

The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again. What a needlessly complicated, counterproductive, and ultimately ineffective regulation.

And a bunch of morons at my fractional are practically BEGGING the Fed to extend 117 to Part 91K and Part 135. They have NO IDEA. Be careful what you wish for...

Yes it would be terrible to have adequate rest rules. We aren't paid hourly so we wouldn't be complaining for the same reasons.

What are the consequences, intended or unintended you foresee with implementation of these rules for Part 135/91K?

 

[Singlecoil]

You have to self-certify when you check in for your day? Ours is an additional signature on the release, just prior to push.

Bubba

Both crewmembers have to send a special acars which acts as a digital signature certifying fit for duty, release acceptance, and fdp extensions.

 

[temcgrew]

Yes it would be terrible to have adequate rest rules. We aren't paid hourly so we wouldn't be complaining for the same reasons.

What are the consequences, intended or unintended you foresee with implementation of these rules for Part 135/91K?

14 hours of duty and 10 rest for 135. How could it get simpler than that? Why change it? Tracking all of this is impossible without the help of an app or program, of which there are none that are credible to use right now. The FAA should provide a way for us to track it if they are to burden us with compliance.

 

[temcgrew]

It may get worse in February when the 117 rules require a look back to the previous month.

It's not a month look back, it's a rolling hourly window for duty and flight (28 days and 7 days....by the hour). The only thing that is a calander day is the 1,000 hours in a rolling year.

Basically what you fly this year until 01/04/2015 will roll with you and basically stay the same if you are flying the same average. This should be the same with the rolling hourly 28 days. There is no more calander month and 30/7 is totally gone.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Yes it would be terrible to have adequate rest rules. We aren't paid hourly so we wouldn't be complaining for the same reasons.

What are the consequences, intended or unintended you foresee with implementation of these rules for Part 135/91K?

While our rest rules are far from perfect, we're very lucky to have a no-fault fatigue policy. Call the ACP, utter the word, and you're done for a minimum of 14 hours.

That said, I'd like to see the following:

Absolute minimum is 10 hours off.

No rest period shorter than the preceding duty period, rounded up to the next hour ie: 11:15 duty, 12 off, 10:50 duty, 11 off, etc.

Cross more than 3 time zones, you get an additional hour per time zone crossed.

Minimum.

Simple. Easy to calculate. Easy to predict.

Remember, "no operator may assign and no pilot may accept" a non-compliant brief. Our scheduling is so jacked, they'll issue non-compliant briefs left and right and it will be on US to decipher the horrendously complicated time chart to prevent a violation.

Whose time zone are we using to calculate? The east coast PIC or the west coast SIC? CMH time? What about when we're international in Geneva? Or Singapore? Or Timbuktu? We're rarely there long enough to become "acclimated." What time do we use then to properly calculate the circadian limit on flight and duty time?

Don't even get me started on the 30 hours off every 7 days. You don't think the company would roll back on us for more duty days every year to make up the productivity loss?

And the disruption to the customer is potentially so dramatic as to drive them even further away from 91K/135 and back to owned Part 91. Because I doubt these rest rules would EVER be applied to straight 91.

Those are just some of the unintended consequences.

I can only hope that the 121 goat rope we're seeing on Part 117 implimentation will kill any effort to extend this abortion to 91K/135.

 

[waveflyer]

Said in the other thread- but you don't sound informed gut. Kind of an all passion, no brains approach