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How is FAR 117 transition going

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Top guys get another day off. Everyone else loses a day.
 
I've got three 30 hour layovers this month. At least I will be well rested at the Holiday Inn :erm:
 
I like the new ACARS message. Now we have to confirm we are fit to fly before each flight. What a joke.
 
LearLove said:
I like the new ACARS message. Now we have to confirm we are fit to fly before each flight. What a joke.
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And when we certify FFD, as we must, we are agreeing to waive UPA and FAR 117 to maximum flight and FDP allowances. UAL. Unreal.

With the recent snowstorms and irregular operations around the system, there have been multiple instances of crews being asked to waive their UPA duty limits or extend the maximum Flight Duty Period (FDP) limit. FAR 117 allows extension of the FDP due to unforeseen operational circumstances with the following restrictions:
- The company may extend the FDP up to 30 minutes and this does not require PIC concurrence.
- Extensions beyond 30 minutes require PIC concurrence.
- Extensions beyond 30 minutes can only be taken once until a pilot has a 30 hour rest period
- No extension can be taken before takeoff if it will cause the pilot to exceed the cumulative FDP limits in part 117.23 (i.e., 60 in 168, or 190 in 672)

PIC concurrence is tracked via the "Fit For Duty" certification done before each duty period. Unless you tell the company otherwise, it is assumed you agree to the extension with no Add Pay. If you don't agree to extend more than 30 minutes, or if you only agree to extend if you are provided Add Pay (if eligible under section 5-F-1-h below), you must inform the crew desk and/or FODM.
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" ... if you... agree to extend if you are provided Add Pay.."

" I'm fatigued. Not Fit for Duty. Uh....Wait, unless you give me more Money. Then, I'm OKAY. "

Such a High Degree of Standards and Professionalism we all adhere to isn't it?

As the old joke goes:

" SO...We've established what you are, now we are just dickering over price."


I am so glad to be at The End.. of this 30 year Goat-Rope of Fools and Prostitutes.

Happy New Year!...And G.F.Y. !

:)

Love,

YKW
 
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Whine Lover said:
I am so glad to be at The End.. of this 30 year Goat-Rope of Fools and Prostitutes.

Happy New Year!...And G.F.Y. !

:)

Love,

YKW
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The nature of this job has changed dramatically over just the last year, and with the new FAR, even just this week. The buffers built into the trips have made them unproductive so most are just paying rigs. The trips have been lengthened to mostly 4 days or more. Used to be seniority meant a change in QOL along these lines. No more. You ended your career at the right time.
 
Whopping 10 hours of rest..... real hard to schedule..... 117 rules seem to be written by mgmt.... I forsee fatigue calls at the beginning of trips or day two of a four day..... start early and keep changing your schedule until you finish late. Back to back four days with 31 hours in between....block over 40+ hours in nine days.....perfectly legal.
 
Seriously, all they REALLY needed to do was close the reduced rest loophole. It was never meant to be SCHEDULED that way.
 
The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again. What a needlessly complicated, counterproductive, and ultimately ineffective regulation.

And a bunch of morons at my fractional are practically BEGGING the Fed to extend 117 to Part 91K and Part 135. They have NO IDEA. Be careful what you wish for...
 
airplane wizard said:
What if you click 'NO' ??
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We were discussing this today prior to our last leg. Does the aircraft shut down if you click no? We were tempted to try but we both are going into off days so we didn't want to temp fate on the go home leg. Philly and the wx were already extending my 11 hour day to 14+.
 
Well, it's not great, but not a meltdown...yet. New scheduling software seems to work pretty good for now. Now only if we could find some crews to fly...
 
RAH carriers lead the pack in cancellations and IROPS. This is the most epic CF I've ever witnessed. I'd hate to see what would've happened if we weren't "the most prepared" company for the 117 change. ?
 
Also, the second you click yes is when the door will burst open and you will be tested for alcohol if someone smelled you at security. Prior to that, you could say you were going to call in sick.
 
Singlecoil said:
Also, the second you click yes is when the door will burst open and you will be tested for alcohol if someone smelled you at security. Prior to that, you could say you were going to call in sick.
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You have to self-certify when you check in for your day? Ours is an additional signature on the release, just prior to push.

Bubba
 
SWA Bubba said:
You have to self-certify when you check in for your day? Ours is an additional signature on the release, just prior to push.

Bubba
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Many ways at UAL. On LCAL side (yes, almost 4 years after merger the systems aren't compatible) there is a click here to get paperwork or send a free text message on ACARS or call. LUAL side I believe signing release is FFD or ACARS prompt or call.
 
Whine Lover said:
Well, my career ( as it were ) was ended for me when :

A) My carrier went T.U.

B) I attempted retirement during the Great Recession.

C) I got old.

D) I got bored and joined a Flying Circus.

So, I'm still flying but I have the luxury of truly not giving a Flying "F" anymore, which is kind of fun...:)

Whine
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I don't recall you giving a "flying F" when we flew together back in 2003!!!
 
So far it seems to be about a wash to me. This one mostly effects the regionals/international since I think most majors at least domestically, already had better work rules than what we had to gain from 117. For example, Alaska already had a 12:30 max scheduled duty day and 10 hour if encroached the WOCL, so the rules didn't help much except for off schedule ops. They closed the legal-start BS but now we can fly more in a day. Now SEA-SAN-Hawaii is legal.

I was thinking of sending an email to scheduling putting them on notice that I was declining all extensions until I retire. I think that would comply.
 
SWA Bubba said:
You have to self-certify when you check in for your day? Ours is an additional signature on the release, just prior to push.

Bubba
Click to expand...

I'm shocked you don't let the ramp certify you....like when you bought the FAA to approve rampers doing your walk arounds.
 

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