How I feel about the signing bonus.....

[John Pennekamp]

Leaning towards a NO vote, mainly because of the scheduling section and the granting of way too much unchecked power for the Sch Comm Chair, and inserting items in there for his personal agenda.

Hoser

Hoser, I agree that's a problem, and I'm not happy about it either. In fact I'm not happy about a lot of the little "gotchas" in the scheduling section.

But PD and his committee can be dealt with, and I don't think these issues are worth shooting down the whole deal. But I definitely want to hear it explained at the road shows.

 

[scarlet]

P.Davis liked the sch. section and has read it many times I am sure if you know Capt.Davis...

I like the profit sharing check
I like the 100% Dead head (comair,Continental two that comes to mind that don't have that)
If it fails then there are alot of things that we can not take advantage of NOW. Naps will pay good money! Bonus every quarter on profit. There are alot more good then 2-3 bad things. Please remember this was negotating !!

 

[79%N1]

Leaning towards a NO vote, mainly because of the scheduling section and the granting of way too much unchecked power for the Sch Comm Chair, and inserting items in there for his personal agenda.

Hoser

Serious question.....

what powers does this TA grant to one individual? Why would he not use any power to better any scheduling issues on our behalf?

What am I missing when I read this?

 

[E120ASA]

This is how I feel, 100% of you low time upgrades should not have been able to do so. Sorry you have no experience. Sorry, people have, and I have, told you what to do and think, all of the time that you have been here. You can't think on your own. I think you need and I believe that you need at least 6000 hours of dual before the company should ever let you upgrade. Also for the people that think us fo's should not get any money because we did not upgrade is true BS!
Let me tell you about us senior fo's. 1, 60% of us who taught you lost our 1st class meds, and wham, We are Fo's.
60% of us had our spouses leave us or die and we have had to give up our Capitan status so we could take care of our kids. Oh, but thats not your fault. sorry but this happened to me. (died part)
I taught you and still have to teach you from both side of the of an RJseat, Sorry but this is a family, (ASA) we are tired of you time builders, please don"t apply, please leave. On a lighter note, People complain about Alpa, well Half of you guys fail the upgrade twice, the rest more than that, but they, (Alpa) still work with you, or protect you until you pass, Try that some were else. Alpa bad, I see it all the time. Go some were else, like SW, and see how long U last.

 

[John Pennekamp]

This is how I feel, 100% of you low time upgrades should not have been able to do so. Sorry you have no experience. Sorry, people have, and I have, told you what to do and think, all of the time that you have been here. You can't think on your own. I think you need and I believe that you need at least 6000 hours of dual before the company should ever let you upgrade. Also for the people that think us fo's should not get any money because we did not upgrade is true BS!
Let me tell you about us senior fo's. 1, 60% of us who taught you lost our 1st class meds, and wham, We are Fo's.
60% of us had our spouses leave us or die and we have had to give up our Capitan status so we could take care of our kids. Oh, but thats not your fault. sorry but this happened to me. (died part)
I taught you and still have to teach you from both side of the of an RJseat, Sorry but this is a family, (ASA) we are tired of you time builders, please don"t apply, please leave. On a lighter note, People complain about Alpa, well Half of you guys fail the upgrade twice, the rest more than that, but they, (Alpa) still work with you, or protect you until you pass, Try that some were else. Alpa bad, I see it all the time. Go some were else, like SW, and see how long U last.

Wow. On the condescending scale, I'd give that one a 9.

 

[CFI2766]

This is how I feel, 100% of you low time upgrades should not have been able to do so. Sorry you have no experience. Sorry, people have, and I have, told you what to do and think, all of the time that you have been here. You can't think on your own. I think you need and I believe that you need at least 6000 hours of dual before the company should ever let you upgrade. Also for the people that think us fo's should not get any money because we did not upgrade is true BS!
Let me tell you about us senior fo's. 1, 60% of us who taught you lost our 1st class meds, and wham, We are Fo's.
60% of us had our spouses leave us or die and we have had to give up our Capitan status so we could take care of our kids. Oh, but thats not your fault. sorry but this happened to me. (died part)
I taught you and still have to teach you from both side of the of an RJseat, Sorry but this is a family, (ASA) we are tired of you time builders, please don"t apply, please leave. On a lighter note, People complain about Alpa, well Half of you guys fail the upgrade twice, the rest more than that, but they, (Alpa) still work with you, or protect you until you pass, Try that some were else. Alpa bad, I see it all the time. Go some were else, like SW, and see how long U last.

Huh? I don't quite understand...Tooo many meds for you?

 

[scarlet]

Alpa taking 2% from the bonus?????

 

[John Pennekamp]

Alpa taking 2% from the bonus?????

As a matter of fact, I was told it will be treated like a regular paycheck and subject to normal taxes and fees, INCLUDING ALPA DUES.

 

[WWEfan]

This is how I feel, 100% of you low time upgrades should not have been able to do so. Sorry you have no experience. Sorry, people have, and I have, told you what to do and think, all of the time that you have been here. You can't think on your own. I think you need and I believe that you need at least 6000 hours of dual before the company should ever let you upgrade. Also for the people that think us fo's should not get any money because we did not upgrade is true BS!
Let me tell you about us senior fo's. 1, 60% of us who taught you lost our 1st class meds, and wham, We are Fo's.
60% of us had our spouses leave us or die and we have had to give up our Capitan status so we could take care of our kids. Oh, but thats not your fault. sorry but this happened to me. (died part)
I taught you and still have to teach you from both side of the of an RJseat, Sorry but this is a family, (ASA) we are tired of you time builders, please don"t apply, please leave. On a lighter note, People complain about Alpa, well Half of you guys fail the upgrade twice, the rest more than that, but they, (Alpa) still work with you, or protect you until you pass, Try that some were else. Alpa bad, I see it all the time. Go some were else, like SW, and see how long U last.

Possibly the worst post ever on FI. I am now dumber for reading it.

60% lost their first class medical while the other 60% lost their spouse? Still can't comprehend the math on that one.

Half of our pilots failed their upgrade twice while the rest failed it even more often? How TF would ASA even be in business if this were the case? Certainly our pass rate is higher than 0%. Oh yeah, I passed on the first try and had alot less than 6,000 hrs when I did it.

Can't wait to fly with you

 

[mkingmei]

signing bonus is BS

as a senior FO, like it matters, I sould not have to get almost half of what a CA that is junior to me gets... QOL sometimes overrides my greed and ego to become a CA.

It is total BS that a junior to CA gets more. It should be based on how long you have been here putting up with ASA's crap, not what seat you did/do it from.

And for those of you that think senority means anything, reread the RES section of the TA... after call me first, then it goes to the persons with the least block.. what the hell is the point of being senior and bidding res if you are going to fly as much as everyone else. it is a company money making scam... don't fall for it.

still on the fence.
maybe they can clear things up at the road shows

 

[Cpt Oveur]

So, the ones who didn't take an upgrade as soon as they could are getting screwed because they made the decision to hold a better schedule? A captain has a lot more responsibility than an FO has, doesn't matter which one is the better stick and rudder or who's more senior. You senior FO's enjoyed better schedules, maybe watched your kids grow up instead of commuting to reserve, got the holidays off, could be there for the things you needed to do other than work, or any combination of these things. You made the decision that the time you had was more valuable. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that decision at all. IMO, everyone who had been here for the 5 years should be getting the same amount, and everyone less than 5 years should get a pro rata amount, but it's not up to me.

I guess if E120ASA had BM's job, the company would hired off the street captains or shut down if they couldn't find 6,000 hour pilots to upgrade. I guess since he has flown with each and every one of these guys, he would know. Some people might learn faster than others, but that's just my guess. It stinks that people had to wait longer to upgrade than they are waiting now, but that is in no way their fault. Give me a break. This is how the industry works, it's not fair to everyone. Some of us don't want to work here forever, it doesn't mean we think less of those who do. Grow up.

 

[ohplease!]

as a senior FO, like it matters, I sould not have to get almost half of what a CA that is junior to me gets... QOL sometimes overrides my greed and ego to become a CA.

It is total BS that a junior to CA gets more. It should be based on how long you have been here putting up with ASA's crap, not what seat you did/do it from.

And for those of you that think senority means anything, reread the RES section of the TA... after call me first, then it goes to the persons with the least block.. what the hell is the point of being senior and bidding res if you are going to fly as much as everyone else. it is a company money making scam... don't fall for it.

still on the fence.
maybe they can clear things up at the road shows

You made the choice to not upgrade for your own reasons. If your QOL counts so much to you that you have chosen to forgo the extra money of being a CA, then surely 7 or 8 K shouldn't matter either.

If someone junior chose to forgo QOL for the added responsibility and pay (not ego) of upgrading, they deserve to receive the bigger cut.

PS. this coming from a "senior" FO with 2400 TT? Your perspective is a little twisted.

 

[Speedtape]

as a senior FO, like it matters, I sould not have to get almost half of what a CA that is junior to me gets... QOL sometimes overrides my greed and ego to become a CA.

It is total BS that a junior to CA gets more. It should be based on how long you have been here putting up with ASA's crap, not what seat you did/do it from.

And for those of you that think senority means anything, reread the RES section of the TA... after call me first, then it goes to the persons with the least block.. what the hell is the point of being senior and bidding res if you are going to fly as much as everyone else. it is a company money making scam... don't fall for it.

still on the fence.
maybe they can clear things up at the road shows

As some others have said, QOL bidding has cost you 40% ever since the first guy under you bid Captain! You really don't have a sound argument!

If I read it right, you did get some credit for seniority--but at the QOL rate of 60%! There is an old saying, "You get what you negotiate," and "Bid what you want because you want get what you didn't bid!"

 

[mkingmei]

You made the choice to not upgrade for your own reasons. If your QOL counts so much to you that you have chosen to forgo the extra money of being a CA, then surely 7 or 8 K shouldn't matter either.

If someone junior chose to forgo QOL for the added responsibility and pay (not ego) of upgrading, they deserve to receive the bigger cut.

PS. this coming from a "senior" FO with 2400 TT? Your perspective is a little twisted.

"senior" is in jest... b/c who cares!!

I guess my perspective is alittle twisted b/c I don't sit here and update my profile everytime I finish a trip to make sure all of you know exactly where I stand. You don't know my background, so you have no idea what my perspective is. Typical of this board some d-bag always has to start with the "I have more time and that makes me better" crap, get over yourself.

ooh no responibility!!!... it comes in many ways, ie company, family, health, etc. Regardless, I have had to put up with the company crap for the same amount of time, or in some cases longer then others and I should be fairly compensated for it. Seat position should have nothing to do with it.
Been here for all 5+ years gets the most and on down from there.

As we all know, we are not all going to be happy with everything, but at very least make it fair. The company is going to screw us, atleast we shouldn't get it from ALPA.

Why do I waste my time on this thing.

 

[mkingmei]

As some others have said, QOL bidding has cost you 40% ever since the first guy under you bid Captain! You really don't have a sound argument!

The argument is good, the view of the s#!t sandwich is the same from either seat, it's just a matter of how long you've had to look at it.

If I read it right, you did get some credit for seniority--but at the QOL rate of 60%! There is an old saying, "You get what you negotiate," and "Bid what you want because you want get what you didn't bid!"

How insightful.
When were the negotiations about the distribution of the money to the pilots? We had/have no say in it.

 

[Speedtape]

As some others have said, QOL bidding has cost you 40% ever since the first guy under you bid Captain! You really don't have a sound argument!

The argument is good, the view of the s#!t sandwich is the same from either seat, it's just a matter of how long you've had to look at it.

If I read it right, you did get some credit for seniority--but at the QOL rate of 60%! There is an old saying, "You get what you negotiate," and "Bid what you want because you want get what you didn't bid!"

How insightful.
When were the negotiations about the distribution of the money to the pilots? We had/have no say in it.

It occurred when precedent was set at multiple other carriers. Had your reps not followed followed that process, they would have been re-inventing the wheel.

On an individual level, negotiations took place when you decided to remain in the right seat. Can you make a successful argument that as a senior F/O, that you should make as much as a new Captain?

Collectively, you, the rest of the F/O's, and anyone else that does not like this issue or other overall issues in the contract, can vote NO! Aside of this issue, there are many other parts of this contract that should concern all of us! This contract is not ratified until a majority of the pilots say YES! I am not sure that will happen. In the meantime, bid a Captain position--you have time. Then, bid back to F/O later if you do not like the QOL, the money, and flying with your favorite PIC every trip.

 

[mkingmei]

It occurred when precedent was set at multiple other carriers. Had your reps not followed followed that process, they would have been re-inventing the wheel.

On an individual level, negotiations took place when you decided to remain in the right seat. Can you make a successful argument that as a senior F/O, that you should make as much as a new Captain?

Collectively, you, the rest of the F/O's, and anyone else that does not like this issue or other overall issues in the contract, can vote NO! Aside of this issue, there are many other parts of this contract that should concern all of us! This contract is not ratified until a majority of the pilots say YES! I am not sure that will happen. In the meantime, bid a Captain position--you have time. Then, bid back to F/O later if you do not like the QOL, the money, and flying with your favorite PIC every trip.

Just because there is a precedent doesn't mean it is right. Maybe the wheel needs to be reinvented once in a while.
Very weak argument about individual negotiations. Do I think I should make as much as a captain... No, I just believe that in the case of this bonus it should be handled differently.
True this contract has many others things that are not good and I hope everyone sees them.
The more I think about it the more I am leading towards a NO vote.