How I feel about the signing bonus.....

[Berry McCockner]

I think if you polled every pilot on whether they agree or disagree with the distribution of the 13.5mil, you would find that it would pass by probably 65 to 70%. I'm a captain on the 50 seater and have been here for almost 8 years and I think my portion represents my status and longevity fairly well.

 

[FishandFly]

I think if you polled every pilot on whether they agree or disagree with the distribution of the 13.5mil, you would find that it would pass by probably 65 to 70%. I'm a captain on the 50 seater and have been here for almost 8 years and I think my portion represents my status and longevity fairly well.

Would it not make you happier if 95% felt the same way?

Those of you who are complaining about those who disagree with the allotment should think about this problem as if you were also one of the one's shorted, instead of sitting on your big share and saying everything looks peachy from your view.

 

[Speedtape]

Would it not make you happier if 95% felt the same way?

Those of you who are complaining about those who disagree with the allotment should think about this problem as if you were also one of the one's shorted, instead of sitting on your big share and saying everything looks peachy from your view.

And what would make you happy? 13 Million?

The dollar amount did not meet your expectation. What was your expectation?

Was it a dollar amount for you, or was it the method? The method is the most important part, not the dollar amount. According to those in the know, the method is in line with what has been done in the past at other properties.

There are many senior guys that are not happy with the dollar amount they got either. Maybe, there just wasn't enough money in the pot?

If that many people are unhappy, then vote NO, and let's go back for more!

 

[Berry McCockner]

Would it not make you happier if 95% felt the same way?

Those of you who are complaining about those who disagree with the allotment should think about this problem as if you were also one of the one's shorted, instead of sitting on your big share and saying everything looks peachy from your view.

Totally agree, 95% would be great, but you will never make everyone happy. The goal is to appease the majority and thats what they have done.

 

[HoserASA]

SHUTUP I'm trying to listen to my IPOD and slick my hair back for the 61 year old FA I wanta do.

Now that's mo like it!

Hoser

 

[FishandFly]

And what would make you happy? 13 Million?

The dollar amount did not meet your expectation. What was your expectation?

Was it a dollar amount for you, or was it the method? The method is the most important part, not the dollar amount. According to those in the know, the method is in line with what has been done in the past at other properties.

There are many senior guys that are not happy with the dollar amount they got either. Maybe, there just wasn't enough money in the pot?

If that many people are unhappy, then vote NO, and let's go back for more!

I got more than I deserved. I think it is very unfortunate that our FO's are getting screwed, and I don't think that they deserve so much less.

The purpose of this $13.5 mil should not be to appease our most well off pilots, but to display to our ENTIRE PILOT GROUP WHO HAS FOUGHT AND ENDURED THIS CONTRACT BATTLE that it was worth the effort.

 

[FishandFly]

Totally agree, 95% would be great, but you will never make everyone happy. The goal is to appease the majority and thats what they have done.

That is NOT what they have done. They have given favor to the senior captains at the direct expense of the FO's.

 

[Medeco]

B.T Justice,

If you had recieved the same amount that a 28 year captain recieved because you had been here all 5 yrs of the contract, how would you explain to those senior guys your justification?

Remember the senior people, mostly on the 700 are getting less than a dollar/hr raise for the duration of the contract, this bonus will help that just a little.

Ive said it before, Seniority is the way of airlines and your SOL. Its sucks, but it is what it is.

If you choose not to upgrade then, your SOL.

Medeco

 

[FishandFly]

Don't mean to answer for him, but have they lost more income over the past 5 years than the 5 year FO's?

 

[COOPERVANE]

This is a signing bonus. A signing bonus. I'll say it again...... a signing bonus NOT retro pay.

1 vote, 1 share. 1-5 years longevity.

And yes, I am trying to do something about it elsewhere.

I used to hear guys say 100% retro or a no vote. I used to shake my head thinking that was shortsighted.

Similarly it would be shortsighted to vote down this TA simply because of the distribution method. It is NOT the companys fault the MEC $crewed this up!! It should be taken care of internally. However this is the last straw for me and I will be casting a no vote if they don't fix this.

Call me shortsighted, but if you don't CARE about me, then $crew you!

 

[Medeco]

Not based on the new payrates for the 700, no.

But they also will not get a nice raise every year like we will.

FOR THE DURATION OF THE CONTRACT!

Medeco

"We" being the 200/ATR captains. The FO hired last year or even 2 years ago will have a fast upgrade if they take it, compared to those here hired 4.5 to 5.5 years ago.

 

[shamrock]

I think the distribution of the money is absolute crap. While I am on the record--the decision to withhold the solution to the formula for the payout is ridiculous. It causes us to try to plug in our own numbers coming up with answers that are most likely incorrect(although I do give thanks and credit to the guy on the alpa board for giving it a shot). What further irritates me is that there are MEC guys walking around with the rough estimate--POST IT ON THE INTERNET--or better yet EMAIL IT(It is 2007)! Don't make me find you or call you or write you a letter! Its just not that hard guys.

Nobody is withholding anything and there's no need to "plug in our own numbers" because as you said, the MEC guys are walking around with an estimate of the payout. Nick was in the crew lounge today for a long time and would show anybody interested what their estimated payout would be. He was also more than willing to talk about how they arrived at the numbers and why they haven't been posted.

Your "it's just not that hard guys" comment is also good advice for those who have the time to complain about this stuff on an message board but can't seem to summon the energy to pick up the phone to get some real answers.

And just for the record, I'm not completely sold on the breakdown of the money either but after talking to Nick I can understand the reasoning behind it.

 

[CFI2766]

B.T Justice,

If you had recieved the same amount that a 28 year captain recieved because you had been here all 5 yrs of the contract, how would you explain to those senior guys your justification?

No explanation/justification needed. I haven't yet seen a solid explanation as to why 28 years is an issue. The contract has only been under negotiations for the last five years, right?

Ive said it before, Seniority is the way of airlines and your SOL. Its sucks, but it is what it is.

Okay, let's make sure I understand your logic: Industry Standard (Seniority) is a valuable thing that needs to be heeded.

Remember the senior people, mostly on the 700 are getting less than a dollar/hr raise for the duration of the contract, this bonus will help that just a little.

Back to the logic: Industry Standard needs to be heeded. Well, the 700 guys are already pretty close to the top of industry standard in pay. Why do they need to be given any 'help' in the contract?

If you choose not to upgrade then, your SOL.

Frankly, the opinion of many FOs here is that the payout unfairly punishes FOs that have not yet had the opportunity to upgrade. Did an FO suffer less than a captain during the contract negotiations? Did the FO population do less to help bring this contract to fruition? The logic that an FO is somehow responsible for the lower share because of a decision to upgrade or not, while convenient to folks who will get the larger share, is simply not there. For the vast majority of FOs, upgrading is more of a timing thing, not a decision.

Medeco

I agree that a big part of why this is becoming such a huge issue is the expectations that were either created, or not created (depending, literally, on where you sit) when the TA was announced.

All that being said, let's not forget the bigger picture here. We've got a contract that is a huge step forward from where we were. While it's okay to disagree with each other, I just don't understand folks attacking each other over this issue. It's just money. Go to work, earn some more.

 

[CFI2766]

Get over it...It won't change anyway.

Right now the most important part is to focus on the contract language, read and re read it, ask questions to your reps about things you don't get, go to the road show, and vote on it...

The most logical, intelligent thing yet.

 

[FishandFly]

BS

BS

BS

The most important thing by anyones measure is a check that they will be receiving in a month that is the largest measure of whether a FIVE YEAR DELAY WAS WORTH IT.

There is no retro on scheduling issues, commuter clauses, duty rigs, days off, performance incentives or anything else... OTHER THAN THE CHECK.

All of you who suggest we should skip over this lack character or are so well off you are unable to understand why this hurts our FOs.

 

[Long Time Gone]

The only issue I have with the distribution is that the allotment for Longevity goes up to full Longevity instead of the max of 18 years. If the pay scale maxes out at 18 years in the contract, it should be the same for bonus calculations.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

All the FO's that are getting screwed, what do you think about the paycut that the Cpt's who are Check Airmen taking a HUGE paycut. Don't care?????????? Well, thats what I thought. I dont' really care about what you are getting, even those that sacrifise being a Cpt(code for not wanting the money or responsibility) for QOL! Voice your opinions to the MEC. Let them know. If you vote on the TA just becasue of how the MEC distributes the money, you are a FOOL!

Dick Gozinya

 

[FishandFly]

All the FO's that are getting screwed, what do you think about the paycut that the Cpt's who are Check Airmen taking a HUGE paycut. Don't care?????????? Well, thats what I thought. I dont' really care about what you are getting, even those that sacrifise being a Cpt(code for not wanting the money or responsibility) for QOL! Voice your opinions to the MEC. Let them know. If you vote on the TA just becasue of how the MEC distributes the money, you are a FOOL!

Dick Gozinya

OK, I'll mark one down for not caring because of lack of character.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

OK, I'll mark one down for not caring because of lack of character.

Mark it down any way you want. It has been said that there should be caring about what others are receiving in all this. These same people have said that it is done by Cpt's, for Cpt's. Specifically all on the MEC being Cpt's. They say it is being done at the expense of the FO's. It all isn't true. Voice your opinion if you don't like the distribution. Ultimately we all have to look out for ourselves, then the other pilots.

It has nothing to do with character. If you want to mark it down for something, have you sh1t in one pile and then present it.

So what do you think about the Check Airmen taking a huge paycut? Will you tell them that you lack character by voting for theri paycuts? Will you say it to their face? Will you say that the MEC lacks character by the plan to distribute the money?

I will take a huge paycut! I will probably vote for the TA! I will not look back about how much we get through the MEC distribution.

By the way, what do you think about all the guys at the top of the seniority list, the ones getting the highest amount of longevity pay, not paying any dues, EVER? Got any comment about that?

Dick Gozinya

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Nevermind.