How I feel about the signing bonus.....

[FightingIrish]

This doesn't help the ALPA drive at Skywest. As a line check pilot, I am taking a huge paycut even though I was told that "no pilot would be left behind". It's a double whammy since I am getting an hourly raise of less than a dollar. All that after 5 years? YGTBSM!

 

[WWEfan]

As far as the signing bonus if would it be fair to pay someone who has been at ASA 6 months the same as someone who has been here 2 years? If the payout was based on days at ASA then the F/O's would get a major windfall and it would be nearly 150% retro pay, mean while under the current break down everyone is getting about 65% if it were a true retro based on the CR2. The F/O's at ASA are lucky that the MEC held fast on the 60% F/O rate of Captains I think there are only 2 regionals left with that pay structure. Most are much less. And the company had that on the table to reduce the F/O % pay right up till the last day. The signing bonus break down keeps the 60% of Captains.

If everyone were to to get an equal amount it would be roughly $7900. Did you know that senior most F/O is going to get nearly $8500 and a 5 year F/O around $6700 pretty damn close to what they would receive if it were equal distribution for everyone.

Why is it to that most of the F/O's were running around scared when the company had 4 million on the table. MANY f/o's were completely happy with that and "just wanted to get a deal!" Mind you nearly all the MEC and Committee folk are Captains, who convinced everyone to hold out and get a fair deal all around???? Why are more f/o's not joining committees and showing up for LEC meetings? It's funny at an LEC meeting there are usually 25 people, 20 of which are captains, 5 f/o's. I'm still waiting for someone to cite examples of how others have done signing bonuses/ retro / bonuses / bankruptcy retribution!

DELTA CPT- FO split
CMR CPT- FO split
MSA CPT- FO split
FEX CPT- FO split



Profit sharing based on your total income!
Wages 60% of captains here but not most places usually much less

The MEC could have really suck it to the JR folk along time ago and skipped over the new reserve system and opted to just go for the money. All of the CNC and most of the MEC are off reserve and they could give a shxt less about the reserve system but they didn't they stuck it out and now if the senior f/o's upgrade they can enjoy more GDO's, long call, and bidding for on call periods, a structured call out system viewable online,and more days off.

Does anyone remember 2 1/2 years ago when the company wanted to extend the contract and take a "bonus" to negotiate scheduling and the rest of the contract outside of mediation? The MEC said NO and nearly every f/o was pissed wanting to cave and get the growth, well gee we got 25 planes anyhow! Could you imagine if we would have fell for that one and left negotiations, it would take another year to get a deal.

All the F/O's at ASA remain the highest paid in the industry, the CR7 next highest to HRZ the 50 seat CPT 4th highest!

 

[WWEfan]

This doesn't help the ALPA drive at Skywest. As a line check pilot, I am taking a huge paycut even though I was told that "no pilot would be left behind". It's a double whammy since I am getting an hourly raise of less than a dollar. All that after 5 years? YGTBSM!

Lets see Line check over ride in the TA $22, $24 in DOS +18 , higher even than Delta and all majors.

Most of the lines will carry 85- 95 hours of credit with the rig. The LCA pay right now is a 95 hour guarantee. LCA will bid and have 11 to 18 days off, the current system only 12, so if you bid a line with 15 days off thats 3 days that training can be picked up at 6 hours a day.....

so lets just say for argument sake it is a slow month and you only do 4 days of IOE at the $22 hours override on a 89 hour line and pick up 1 day of training at 6 hours you get paid 95 hours of credit with about 23 (4 day) of those hours with at a $22 hour override. Thats more than the current pay.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

DELTA CPT- FO split
CMR CPT- FO split
MSA CPT- FO split
FEX CPT- FO split

UPS CPT-FO split as well.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Lets see Line check over ride in the TA $22, $24 in DOS +18 , higher even than Delta and all majors.

Most of the lines will carry 85- 95 hours of credit with the rig. The LCA pay right now is a 95 hour guarantee. LCA will bid and have 11 to 18 days off, the current system only 12, so if you bid a line with 15 days off thats 3 days that training can be picked up at 6 hours a day.....

so lets just say for argument sake it is a slow month and you only do 4 days of IOE at the $22 hours override on a 89 hour line and pick up 1 day of training at 6 hours you get paid 95 hours of credit with about 23 (4 day) of those hours with at a $22 hour override. Thats more than the current pay.

Just got an email from one of the Check Airmen who has run the spreadsheet on our pay. It is an 11% decrease. He is in the top 50% of the liineholders. His assignment is pretty typical of what we will get. 13 days off with an 85 hour line. This leaves 1 day for the 6 hour override, if they are available. On the 700 it means a relief line.

11% paycut!!!!!!!!! That says it all. Will I vote no because of this...........maybe. Will I vote no because of the distribution by the MEC? That would be FOOLISH!

Dick Gozinya

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Lets see Line check over ride in the TA $22, $24 in DOS +18 , higher even than Delta and all majors.

Most of the lines will carry 85- 95 hours of credit with the rig. The LCA pay right now is a 95 hour guarantee. LCA will bid and have 11 to 18 days off, the current system only 12, so if you bid a line with 15 days off thats 3 days that training can be picked up at 6 hours a day.....

so lets just say for argument sake it is a slow month and you only do 4 days of IOE at the $22 hours override on a 89 hour line and pick up 1 day of training at 6 hours you get paid 95 hours of credit with about 23 (4 day) of those hours with at a $22 hour override. Thats more than the current pay.

WWe, I am agreeing with you that it could be a pay raise. Right now there is no IOE to do. If we went without hiring for an extended period of time, then it would be a big paycut.

Still, voting no because of the distibution of the money would be foolish.

Dick Gozinya

 

[scarlet]

Majority voting yes !

 

[John Pennekamp]

As far as the signing bonus if would it be fair to pay someone who has been at ASA 6 months the same as someone who has been here 2 years? If the payout was based on days at ASA then the F/O's would get a major windfall and it would be nearly 150% retro pay, mean while under the current break down everyone is getting about 65% if it were a true retro based on the CR2. The F/O's at ASA are lucky that the MEC held fast on the 60% F/O rate of Captains I think there are only 2 regionals left with that pay structure. Most are much less. And the company had that on the table to reduce the F/O % pay right up till the last day. The signing bonus break down keeps the 60% of Captains.

I was there, in the room every time this discussed, and I can assure you that IT WAS A CONSIDERATION to move away from the 60% rule we've always used. In fact, many of the "dignitaries" from national said there was no precedent for it and we had to let it go because it would be "too costly to negotiate". Myself, and many others, including the voting members of the MEC (all of whom were captains) stood firm on the 60%, and you got it because of this.

The MEC could have really suck it to the JR folk along time ago and skipped over the new reserve system and opted to just go for the money. All of the CNC and most of the MEC are off reserve and they could give a shxt less about the reserve system but they didn't they stuck it out and now if the senior f/o's upgrade they can enjoy more GDO's, long call, and bidding for on call periods, a structured call out system viewable online,and more days off.

This was also another one that had to be sold. A discussion once took place that reserve reform would be a tough sell because it only affects the bottom 10%-20% of the pilots, and there's no justification for wasting negotiating capitol on it. We stood firm and got you some help on reserve.

All of you whining that you got the shaft need to add this up. The 60% FO pay in the new TA came from somewhere. Go ahead and add up how much you'd make over the next 3-7 years if we REALLY shafted you and dropped the FOs down to Mesa's 40% so that the -700 pilots could have a larger raise. That was one option. Then tell me how you're getting "shafted" again.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I could have thrown you under the bus twice but I only did it once because I care so much about you

 

[www.]

All the FO's that are getting screwed, what do you think about the paycut that the Cpt's who are Check Airmen taking a HUGE paycut. Don't care?????????? Well, thats what I thought. I dont' really care about what you are getting, even those that sacrifise being a Cpt(code for not wanting the money or responsibility) for QOL! Voice your opinions to the MEC. Let them know. If you vote on the TA just becasue of how the MEC distributes the money, you are a FOOL!

Dick Gozinya

Ok, if they want to play...I want more money because over 50% of the FOs that are crying about the money can't fly and the CPTs that do fly with these FOs should be getting paid to baby sit them.

Stuff that and smoke it!

 

[John Pennekamp]

I could have thrown you under the bus twice but I only did it once because I care so much about you

No, more like they tried to throw you under the bus several times and I stopped them by robbing from the senior guys. Now you need to show some gratitude and take your bonus as is. Or vote the deal down and get NOTHING. But your whining here will solve NOTHING.

 

[wms]

There are certain things that come with being a captain. The decision-making, and the responsibility that goes with it; the responsibility for not only your actions but the actions of your crew; answering for your FO's deviations as well as your own; not to mention the agony of extended time on reserve if you upgraded at the earliest opportunity.

For that you get extra pay, including larger bonuses. Performance plus will be higher for captains than FOs, and it's higher for mgmt than for captains. I'm sure someone at ASA mgmt will get a good bonus for settling this contract that is more than captains will get.

The bottom line is if I wanted executive perks, then I should have gone into mgmt and taken on those responsibilities. And if some FOs want captain perks, they should have upgraded and taken on those responsibilities as well as the decrease in QOL that goes with it.

We've been in negotiations for five years and it was going to get settled some day. It should have been no surprise that bonuses or retro or whatever would be affected by position. Anyone who chose not to change their position, or didn't have the seniority to will have to live with it, just like others of us lived with YEARS of reserve to get a better position.

 

[B.T.Justice]

Don't mean to answer for him, but have they lost more income over the past 5 years than the 5 year FO's?

exactly...thank you

 

[B.T.Justice]

I have a few questions for all of you posting here at Fightinfo (NOT misspelled) about how the union screwed you.


3. Do you really think you'll change the outcome?

Yeah, my NO vote is just as equal as yours

4. Do you think you have a majority?

Maybe. I don't have a problem with a CA/FO payout, but it should be based on the last 5 years. Not $19,000 for one captain, and then another captain (the entire 5 years) $10,000.

5. Have you considered that your whining, childish tantrums may be adversely affecting the SkyWest drive?

ATTN, ATTN: UNIONS ARE DOUBLE EDGE SWORDS. Live by the union, die by the union.

6. Why do you have such a sense of entitlement?

UMMM....Pay rates lost the first year alone....$4.00 per hour

7. If your motive is to convince pilots to shoot this down, do you really think you'll get more money next time?

We'll see. We should have more options on how we get the money also. The current strategy will kill us on taxes.


My vote does not count 60% of your vote

 

[John Pennekamp]

Yeah, my NO vote is just as equal as yours

4. Do you think you have a majority?

Maybe. I don't have a problem with a CA/FO payout, but it should be based on the last 5 years. Not $19,000 for one captain, and then another captain (the entire 5 years) $10,000.

5. Have you considered that your whining, childish tantrums may be adversely affecting the SkyWest drive?

ATTN, ATTN: UNIONS ARE DOUBLE EDGE SWORDS. Live by the union, die by the union.

6. Why do you have such a sense of entitlement?

UMMM....Pay rates lost the first year alone....$4.00 per hour

7. If your motive is to convince pilots to shoot this down, do you really think you'll get more money next time?

We'll see. We should have more options on how we get the money also. The current strategy will kill us on taxes.


My vote does not count 60% of your vote

4. Speaking to your majority, you'll have to get all the FOs and at least 50 captains to vote no to get this to go dowm. Good luck with your campaign.

6. $4 per hour X 80 hours X 12 months X 5 years = $19,200 over duration. Is that what you're entitled to?
$13,500,000 / 1700 pilots = $7941.
To reach your entitlement, the signing bonus would have to be $32,640,000. You are out of the realm of reality.

7. I PROMISE YOU that if we shoot this deal down, we will wait 6 months to a year and get another deal only slightly better. Ask Comair. They struck for 89 days and the deal was only a little better than the final one. It was worse than some earlier offers.

 

[HoserASA]

Leaning towards a NO vote, mainly because of the scheduling section and the granting of way too much unchecked power for the Sch Comm Chair, and inserting items in there for his personal agenda.

Hoser

 

[Medeco]

Hoser,

If we all raise enough stink this person can be put in check.New people can be put on the committee

I'm gonna go watch Willy Wonka now on DVD.

Medeco

 

[acaTerry]

Just wondering can anyone show anywhere in history where F/O's got the same or even close to Captains in a signing bonus or retro pay?

NetJets. Just proof it CAN be done if you guys would stick together. 10 years ago this company was pretty lousy. 2 MECs and a few fights later, look at us now.

 

[acaTerry]

7. I PROMISE YOU that if we shoot this deal down, we will wait 6 months to a year and get another deal only slightly better. Ask Comair. They struck for 89 days and the deal was only a little better than the final one. It was worse than some earlier offers.

Yer smokin' crack! These kids haven't a clue what happened "back then". Our "generation" of pilots who got into this because we loved planes since we were kids is all but gone. You're dealing with a group of career changers and SJS Academy grads today. They don't think knowing the "history" of negotiations is important, so they'll fall for the scare tactics of management. I suppose you read "Fly The Line" haven't you? Now, try to find an FO who has. IF you can pull the darn earbuds out of his head.
You seem to be the only one here who can see that the pilots have the upper hand here, IF they hold strong and UNIFIED for some time.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You seem to be the only one here who can see that the pilots have the upper hand here, IF they hold strong and UNIFIED for some time.

Exactly. Management is laughing all the way to the bank watching us fight over the bonus like dogs fighting over scraps the master threw them.