How I feel about the signing bonus.....

[Medeco]

Not based on the new payrates for the 700, no.

But they also will not get a nice raise every year like we will.

FOR THE DURATION OF THE CONTRACT!

Medeco

"We" being the 200/ATR captains. The FO hired last year or even 2 years ago will have a fast upgrade if they take it, compared to those here hired 4.5 to 5.5 years ago.

 

[shamrock]

I think the distribution of the money is absolute crap. While I am on the record--the decision to withhold the solution to the formula for the payout is ridiculous. It causes us to try to plug in our own numbers coming up with answers that are most likely incorrect(although I do give thanks and credit to the guy on the alpa board for giving it a shot). What further irritates me is that there are MEC guys walking around with the rough estimate--POST IT ON THE INTERNET--or better yet EMAIL IT(It is 2007)! Don't make me find you or call you or write you a letter! Its just not that hard guys.

Nobody is withholding anything and there's no need to "plug in our own numbers" because as you said, the MEC guys are walking around with an estimate of the payout. Nick was in the crew lounge today for a long time and would show anybody interested what their estimated payout would be. He was also more than willing to talk about how they arrived at the numbers and why they haven't been posted.

Your "it's just not that hard guys" comment is also good advice for those who have the time to complain about this stuff on an message board but can't seem to summon the energy to pick up the phone to get some real answers.

And just for the record, I'm not completely sold on the breakdown of the money either but after talking to Nick I can understand the reasoning behind it.

 

[CFI2766]

B.T Justice,

If you had recieved the same amount that a 28 year captain recieved because you had been here all 5 yrs of the contract, how would you explain to those senior guys your justification?

No explanation/justification needed. I haven't yet seen a solid explanation as to why 28 years is an issue. The contract has only been under negotiations for the last five years, right?

Ive said it before, Seniority is the way of airlines and your SOL. Its sucks, but it is what it is.

Okay, let's make sure I understand your logic: Industry Standard (Seniority) is a valuable thing that needs to be heeded.

Remember the senior people, mostly on the 700 are getting less than a dollar/hr raise for the duration of the contract, this bonus will help that just a little.

Back to the logic: Industry Standard needs to be heeded. Well, the 700 guys are already pretty close to the top of industry standard in pay. Why do they need to be given any 'help' in the contract?

If you choose not to upgrade then, your SOL.

Frankly, the opinion of many FOs here is that the payout unfairly punishes FOs that have not yet had the opportunity to upgrade. Did an FO suffer less than a captain during the contract negotiations? Did the FO population do less to help bring this contract to fruition? The logic that an FO is somehow responsible for the lower share because of a decision to upgrade or not, while convenient to folks who will get the larger share, is simply not there. For the vast majority of FOs, upgrading is more of a timing thing, not a decision.

Medeco

I agree that a big part of why this is becoming such a huge issue is the expectations that were either created, or not created (depending, literally, on where you sit) when the TA was announced.

All that being said, let's not forget the bigger picture here. We've got a contract that is a huge step forward from where we were. While it's okay to disagree with each other, I just don't understand folks attacking each other over this issue. It's just money. Go to work, earn some more.

 

[CFI2766]

Get over it...It won't change anyway.

Right now the most important part is to focus on the contract language, read and re read it, ask questions to your reps about things you don't get, go to the road show, and vote on it...

The most logical, intelligent thing yet.

 

[FishandFly]

BS

BS

BS

The most important thing by anyones measure is a check that they will be receiving in a month that is the largest measure of whether a FIVE YEAR DELAY WAS WORTH IT.

There is no retro on scheduling issues, commuter clauses, duty rigs, days off, performance incentives or anything else... OTHER THAN THE CHECK.

All of you who suggest we should skip over this lack character or are so well off you are unable to understand why this hurts our FOs.

 

[Long Time Gone]

The only issue I have with the distribution is that the allotment for Longevity goes up to full Longevity instead of the max of 18 years. If the pay scale maxes out at 18 years in the contract, it should be the same for bonus calculations.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

All the FO's that are getting screwed, what do you think about the paycut that the Cpt's who are Check Airmen taking a HUGE paycut. Don't care?????????? Well, thats what I thought. I dont' really care about what you are getting, even those that sacrifise being a Cpt(code for not wanting the money or responsibility) for QOL! Voice your opinions to the MEC. Let them know. If you vote on the TA just becasue of how the MEC distributes the money, you are a FOOL!

Dick Gozinya

 

[FishandFly]

All the FO's that are getting screwed, what do you think about the paycut that the Cpt's who are Check Airmen taking a HUGE paycut. Don't care?????????? Well, thats what I thought. I dont' really care about what you are getting, even those that sacrifise being a Cpt(code for not wanting the money or responsibility) for QOL! Voice your opinions to the MEC. Let them know. If you vote on the TA just becasue of how the MEC distributes the money, you are a FOOL!

Dick Gozinya

OK, I'll mark one down for not caring because of lack of character.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

OK, I'll mark one down for not caring because of lack of character.

Mark it down any way you want. It has been said that there should be caring about what others are receiving in all this. These same people have said that it is done by Cpt's, for Cpt's. Specifically all on the MEC being Cpt's. They say it is being done at the expense of the FO's. It all isn't true. Voice your opinion if you don't like the distribution. Ultimately we all have to look out for ourselves, then the other pilots.

It has nothing to do with character. If you want to mark it down for something, have you sh1t in one pile and then present it.

So what do you think about the Check Airmen taking a huge paycut? Will you tell them that you lack character by voting for theri paycuts? Will you say it to their face? Will you say that the MEC lacks character by the plan to distribute the money?

I will take a huge paycut! I will probably vote for the TA! I will not look back about how much we get through the MEC distribution.

By the way, what do you think about all the guys at the top of the seniority list, the ones getting the highest amount of longevity pay, not paying any dues, EVER? Got any comment about that?

Dick Gozinya

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Nevermind.

 

[FightingIrish]

This doesn't help the ALPA drive at Skywest. As a line check pilot, I am taking a huge paycut even though I was told that "no pilot would be left behind". It's a double whammy since I am getting an hourly raise of less than a dollar. All that after 5 years? YGTBSM!

 

[WWEfan]

As far as the signing bonus if would it be fair to pay someone who has been at ASA 6 months the same as someone who has been here 2 years? If the payout was based on days at ASA then the F/O's would get a major windfall and it would be nearly 150% retro pay, mean while under the current break down everyone is getting about 65% if it were a true retro based on the CR2. The F/O's at ASA are lucky that the MEC held fast on the 60% F/O rate of Captains I think there are only 2 regionals left with that pay structure. Most are much less. And the company had that on the table to reduce the F/O % pay right up till the last day. The signing bonus break down keeps the 60% of Captains.

If everyone were to to get an equal amount it would be roughly $7900. Did you know that senior most F/O is going to get nearly $8500 and a 5 year F/O around $6700 pretty damn close to what they would receive if it were equal distribution for everyone.

Why is it to that most of the F/O's were running around scared when the company had 4 million on the table. MANY f/o's were completely happy with that and "just wanted to get a deal!" Mind you nearly all the MEC and Committee folk are Captains, who convinced everyone to hold out and get a fair deal all around???? Why are more f/o's not joining committees and showing up for LEC meetings? It's funny at an LEC meeting there are usually 25 people, 20 of which are captains, 5 f/o's. I'm still waiting for someone to cite examples of how others have done signing bonuses/ retro / bonuses / bankruptcy retribution!

DELTA CPT- FO split
CMR CPT- FO split
MSA CPT- FO split
FEX CPT- FO split



Profit sharing based on your total income!
Wages 60% of captains here but not most places usually much less

The MEC could have really suck it to the JR folk along time ago and skipped over the new reserve system and opted to just go for the money. All of the CNC and most of the MEC are off reserve and they could give a shxt less about the reserve system but they didn't they stuck it out and now if the senior f/o's upgrade they can enjoy more GDO's, long call, and bidding for on call periods, a structured call out system viewable online,and more days off.

Does anyone remember 2 1/2 years ago when the company wanted to extend the contract and take a "bonus" to negotiate scheduling and the rest of the contract outside of mediation? The MEC said NO and nearly every f/o was pissed wanting to cave and get the growth, well gee we got 25 planes anyhow! Could you imagine if we would have fell for that one and left negotiations, it would take another year to get a deal.

All the F/O's at ASA remain the highest paid in the industry, the CR7 next highest to HRZ the 50 seat CPT 4th highest!

 

[WWEfan]

This doesn't help the ALPA drive at Skywest. As a line check pilot, I am taking a huge paycut even though I was told that "no pilot would be left behind". It's a double whammy since I am getting an hourly raise of less than a dollar. All that after 5 years? YGTBSM!

Lets see Line check over ride in the TA $22, $24 in DOS +18 , higher even than Delta and all majors.

Most of the lines will carry 85- 95 hours of credit with the rig. The LCA pay right now is a 95 hour guarantee. LCA will bid and have 11 to 18 days off, the current system only 12, so if you bid a line with 15 days off thats 3 days that training can be picked up at 6 hours a day.....

so lets just say for argument sake it is a slow month and you only do 4 days of IOE at the $22 hours override on a 89 hour line and pick up 1 day of training at 6 hours you get paid 95 hours of credit with about 23 (4 day) of those hours with at a $22 hour override. Thats more than the current pay.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

DELTA CPT- FO split
CMR CPT- FO split
MSA CPT- FO split
FEX CPT- FO split

UPS CPT-FO split as well.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Lets see Line check over ride in the TA $22, $24 in DOS +18 , higher even than Delta and all majors.

Most of the lines will carry 85- 95 hours of credit with the rig. The LCA pay right now is a 95 hour guarantee. LCA will bid and have 11 to 18 days off, the current system only 12, so if you bid a line with 15 days off thats 3 days that training can be picked up at 6 hours a day.....

so lets just say for argument sake it is a slow month and you only do 4 days of IOE at the $22 hours override on a 89 hour line and pick up 1 day of training at 6 hours you get paid 95 hours of credit with about 23 (4 day) of those hours with at a $22 hour override. Thats more than the current pay.

Just got an email from one of the Check Airmen who has run the spreadsheet on our pay. It is an 11% decrease. He is in the top 50% of the liineholders. His assignment is pretty typical of what we will get. 13 days off with an 85 hour line. This leaves 1 day for the 6 hour override, if they are available. On the 700 it means a relief line.

11% paycut!!!!!!!!! That says it all. Will I vote no because of this...........maybe. Will I vote no because of the distribution by the MEC? That would be FOOLISH!

Dick Gozinya