How about this for PBS at ASA

[CFIT]

What ever you guys at ASA do, do not go with AOS PBS.

AOS absolutlely sucks, and I bid fairly senior.

Say no to AOS PBS.

 

[PooPooPants]

Why is that laughable? It is a perk we have, one of the few left. We use to have lot's of perks in this job and they are leaving piece by piece. Only we have control over this one for now.

Max is exactly right. Right now the our paychecks are bad but not terrible for the amount of time we are capable of getting off. If we start working more days per year for the same pay, well that makes our hourly pay rate significantly less. It would kind of be like making teachers work over the summer without a increase in salary.

 

[maxcackel]

Funny--I thought "WE" were the Union! You guys speak as though it is a third person! And, if that is the perspective you have, there will be no accountabulity and someone else will run or ruin your life.

I am not anti union but it became "We" to me when the union said in the crew lounge during the so called retro check distribution that the Union was going to what IT thought was best and not let US vote on it and if WE did not like it to vote new mec members in. The arrogance of that statement left me with a new perspective on what was in the best interest for me. I have started to get the feeling that the union is there to help me because I pay my protection money but don't question them.

I am also very pro company now with the changes that have been made. I am somewhat proud again of ASA and alway's knew the employee's could shine if given the chance to. I will do everything in my power to get flights out on time and save the company money or make it money they get for our performance. But am unwilling to give up my quality of life for it. If management was asked to just give up one Sunday a month for no pay to help the company out do you think they would?

I try to keep my opinions off of these boards but after the weak ass pathetic vote turnout for the fourlough fund it scared the crap out me for the turn out for pbs. I thought that pbs was in the contract for discussion to get the company to finally sign off on the contract and that in 18 months we would say "yeah we looked at it and no thanks". Everyone I know say's no way but I am hearing other people start to say "Its coming might as well get what ever crumb we can" is terrible.

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

No Pbs!

 

[Speedtape]

I am not anti union but it became "We" to me when the union said in the crew lounge during the so called retro check distribution that the Union was going to what IT thought was best and not let US vote on it and if WE did not like it to vote new mec members in. The arrogance of that statement left me with a new perspective on what was in the best interest for me. I have started to get the feeling that the union is there to help me because I pay my protection money but don't question them.

Not doubting your claim, but who specifically made that statement? And, if they did say it, I would honor their challenge and replace that person or persons. Understand that putting something to vote does not guarantee the best solution, because whatever was put to vote would have to be defined. I doubt that any plan would have gotten popular support (whatever that may be.) In the end, the pay distribution was voted on and passed--along with the contract.

I am also very pro company now with the changes that have been made. I am somewhat proud again of ASA and alway's knew the employee's could shine if given the chance to. I will do everything in my power to get flights out on time and save the company money or make it money they get for our performance. But am unwilling to give up my quality of life for it. If management was asked to just give up one Sunday a month for no pay to help the company out do you think they would?
Hear, Hear! I think everyone agrees with your effort! However, isn't that effort simply doing your job well? Good Performance in the DCI world is the only thing that guarantees that a carrier will still be a part of the team. I agree with your statement of giving up quality of life. However, beware, if the economy continues to show downward trend, the concessionary Grim Reaper will be at your door step to rob you of your hard earned gains and quality of life! PBS is just camel trying to get it's nose in the tent!

I try to keep my opinions off of these boards but after the weak ass pathetic vote turnout for the fourlough fund it scared the crap out me for the turn out for pbs. I thought that pbs was in the contract for discussion to get the company to finally sign off on the contract and that in 18 months we would say "yeah we looked at it and no thanks". Everyone I know say's no way but I am hearing other people start to say "Its coming might as well get what ever crumb we can" is terrible.

Again, I agree with your perception about PBS and our duties after the contract. However, PBS is not going away, whether it's now or later, it's coming. It seems that it is going to be a standard, if you are a DCI carrier. Comair has it. Mesaba and Compass will soon have it. All the Republic companies have it. Skywest has it. Mesa does not matter. ASA and Pinnacle do not have it and at this point is not even close. If we want to remain competitive and in the "norm" of DCI, we may be forced to implement it, or miss out on future flying.

AOS, apparently sucks and should not be considered. Navtech is what the Delta pilots have and it seems to have gained acceptance after 3 years of a learning curve. The Flightline product is just coming to market and apparently is being implemented at Virgin. It is suppose to be the new and improved PBS! If you know someone at Virgin, I would suggest giving them a call.

 

[zawillif]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard this straight out of a union guy's mouth about six months ago:

First is that you will be able to drop trips around your vacation and be docked the pay, same exact way we do it now.

Second is that the company, management, Scott, Brad, whoever, has NO BEARING on the PBS system. The only thing the company does is make the pairings, then they send the pairings to the PBS company. Then we send our preferences to the PBS company, the PBS company builds all the schedules based on the pairings and preferences provided.

Third is that the union is specifically negotiating for us during this whole process. I am not sure if I am for it or against it; I'm waiting until I can actually read the language my union put together for me before I make a decision.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard this straight out of a union guy's mouth about six months ago:

First is that you will be able to drop trips around your vacation and be docked the pay, same exact way we do it now.

Second is that the company, management, Scott, Brad, whoever, has NO BEARING on the PBS system. The only thing the company does is make the pairings, then they send the pairings to the PBS company. Then we send our preferences to the PBS company, the PBS company builds all the schedules based on the pairings and preferences provided.

Third is that the union is specifically negotiating for us during this whole process. I am not sure if I am for it or against it; I'm waiting until I can actually read the language my union put together for me before I make a decision.

You are WRONG, the software goes to your IT department, and your scheduling management has full control of the inner workings of the program. WHY do you think they want it so much? It saves them money by TAKING it right out of your wallet, if they want you to train on your days off, you will, if they want you to fly more than you want, you will, if they want you to fly less, you will. Your vacation will be blocked on either side by trips, your accrual rate will be insufficient to get the same amount of days off. Your vacation days will be charges for every day you have off 7 days off, 7 days of vacation charged at 3.75 per day. I could go on for pages, but I won't, if you don't do the research you wont fully believe it either. Brad is gonna jam AOS into your butts sideways, get your lube!
PBR

 

[maxcackel]

Again, I agree with your perception about PBS and our duties after the contract. However, PBS is not going away, whether it's now or later, it's coming. It seems that it is going to be a standard, if you are a DCI carrier. Comair has it. Mesaba and Compass will soon have it. All the Republic companies have it. Skywest has it.

Speed, you make my point exactly, Sheep, who say's it has to come at all. Just because the other carriers have it does not mean we have to. Loose flying because of cost? Our senior pilot group has a lot more to do with it than the money saved by pbs. We don't control flying Delta does. Look at Comair, they took a pay cut or freeze and were did that get them. If we keep letting the Airlines pushing us back McDonalds will be a better job in 5-10 more years.
At this rate in 10 years our pay will be less than now and will work many more day's a year for it, my insurance was $30/month five years ago and now it's $91 will it be $250, travel will be 10% off retail and they will charge us to ride the bus into the airport to offset the cost of more bus's.


This just need's to stop! I would rather go the way of Comair than the way of Mesa if nothing else to preserve something for future people in this business. Better yet the model of the Major/Regional plan has outrun it's coarse and needs to be all in one. I think the Major managment want's it for wipsaw and the Major pilot's wanted it so their military buddies did not have to fly little planes. But is it still worth it? Is it a time for change?

 

[Speedtape]

Again, I agree with your perception about PBS and our duties after the contract. However, PBS is not going away, whether it's now or later, it's coming. It seems that it is going to be a standard, if you are a DCI carrier. Comair has it. Mesaba and Compass will soon have it. All the Republic companies have it. Skywest has it.

Speed, you make my point exactly, Sheep, who say's it has to come at all. Just because the other carriers have it does not mean we have to. Loose flying because of cost? Our senior pilot group has a lot more to do with it than the money saved by pbs. We don't control flying Delta does. Look at Comair, they took a pay cut or freeze and were did that get them. If we keep letting the Airlines pushing us back McDonalds will be a better job in 5-10 more years.
At this rate in 10 years our pay will be less than now and will work many more day's a year for it, my insurance was $30/month five years ago and now it's $91 will it be $250, travel will be 10% off retail and they will charge us to ride the bus into the airport to offset the cost of more bus's.

Our pilot group has senior pilots, just as does Comair, Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Skywest. I would imagine that the numbers are similar. Compass is the exception, but there are some interesting rumors out there about their longevity. PBS is the norm and a standard with DCI. There are major differences in the different products and AOS is probably the worst from a Pilot perspective. However, friends at some other airlines claim that they would not want to go back to line bidding at Delta, NWA, and Virgin. I know that PBS is a slippery slope, but I think it can be a better way to make a schedule with the right program, the right rule sets, and pilot participation in the administration of it. They have succeeded at Delta. In regard to costs, Insurance has gone up across the board at every Company. Our insurance coverage is still pretty good and the cost is competitive as compared to other companies. I don't have a rebuttal for the pass benefits, but like you, I expect that they will continue to change. Finally, Comair is being punished for their strike and to compare what is going on there, at least at this point, is not a good comparision.


This just need's to stop! I would rather go the way of Comair than the way of Mesa if nothing else to preserve something for future people in this business. Better yet the model of the Major/Regional plan has outrun it's coarse and needs to be all in one. I think the Major managment want's it for wipsaw and the Major pilot's wanted it so their military buddies did not have to fly little planes. But is it still worth it? Is it a time for change?

You loaded up the plate with that paragraph. For sure, things have changed and will continue to do so. In most areas, we have little control. To answer your question, it's always time for change! Is it worth it--It's still a pretty darn good job, especially compared to not working.

The End

 

[Clarence]

I rarely chime in on these boards but I cant help it.

Even if the union can find a way to offset most or even all of the losses we would incure, vacation time, etc., every one of our bids would now be blind. How could you tell what some junior or senior to you bid? Without transparency there is no accountability.

We have the power to vote NO. The reasons to vote NO are longer than our shrinking seniority list.

Spread the word, especially to your FOs.

 

[samballs]

I rarely chime in on these boards but I cant help it.

Even if the union can find a way to offset most or even all of the losses we would incure, vacation time, etc., every one of our bids would now be blind. How could you tell what some junior or senior to you bid? Without transparency there is no accountability.

We have the power to vote NO. The reasons to vote NO are longer than our shrinking seniority list.

Spread the word, especially to your FOs.

When the awards are published the bid is published with the award at Comair.

 

[SLUF4]

I think we should listen to what our fellow pilots at other airlines are telling us about PBS

 

[USCtrojan]

Again, I agree with your perception about PBS and our duties after the contract. However, PBS is not going away, whether it's now or later, it's coming. It seems that it is going to be a standard, if you are a DCI carrier. Comair has it. Mesaba and Compass will soon have it. All the Republic companies have it. Skywest has it.

Speed, you make my point exactly, Sheep, who say's it has to come at all. Just because the other carriers have it does not mean we have to. Loose flying because of cost? Our senior pilot group has a lot more to do with it than the money saved by pbs. We don't control flying Delta does. Look at Comair, they took a pay cut or freeze and were did that get them. If we keep letting the Airlines pushing us back McDonalds will be a better job in 5-10 more years.
At this rate in 10 years our pay will be less than now and will work many more day's a year for it, my insurance was $30/month five years ago and now it's $91 will it be $250, travel will be 10% off retail and they will charge us to ride the bus into the airport to offset the cost of more bus's.


This just need's to stop! I would rather go the way of Comair than the way of Mesa if nothing else to preserve something for future people in this business. Better yet the model of the Major/Regional plan has outrun it's coarse and needs to be all in one. I think the Major managment want's it for wipsaw and the Major pilot's wanted it so their military buddies did not have to fly little planes. But is it still worth it? Is it a time for change?

We have a senior pilot group at ASA because we have not grown in a long while, and because no Legacy Carriers have been hiring lately. We need to grow to become a more "Junior" airline. SkyWest has just as many Senior Pilots as ASA, but they have more Junior Pilots due to their size. That may change if they are forced to furlough (hope not).

Point is, we must remain competitive. Would you be willing to take a pay cut? I'm not, unless it brings 80 of our own back to work. I don't see that, however. I've talked to my Captain's Reps about all the potential changes PBS would possibly bring. It's quite amazing. I encourage you to call your Rep and ask rather than speculate on FI. As far as I know, the Company is willing to get the most expensive PBS system out there because it saves ASA money, all things considered. Whatever system we have (flightline most likely is my guess), SkyWest will have as well. (Your welcome guys, again) Additionally, we are not having it rammed down our throat. This is a unique opportunity to have PBS with ALL of our input, vs. the Company forcing us to use it with little or no input.

If we can grow (SkyW Inc has it as top priority), we get 80 of our own back on the property and you can upgrade that much quicker. Your QOL will improve because you have many many more options. If we continue to shrink, you will either, not have a job, or your QOL will continue to get worse and worse regardless of the bidding system we have in place.

Trojan

 

[Clarence]

Stop dispensing the Koolaid. Stand up for yourselves and vote NO on PBS!

 

[USCtrojan]

Stop dispensing the Koolaid. Stand up for yourselves and vote NO on PBS!

Go help the economy, spend all your money and declare bankruptcy. That way, everyone else benefits but you.

Trojan