How about this for PBS at ASA

[zawillif]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard this straight out of a union guy's mouth about six months ago:

First is that you will be able to drop trips around your vacation and be docked the pay, same exact way we do it now.

Second is that the company, management, Scott, Brad, whoever, has NO BEARING on the PBS system. The only thing the company does is make the pairings, then they send the pairings to the PBS company. Then we send our preferences to the PBS company, the PBS company builds all the schedules based on the pairings and preferences provided.

Third is that the union is specifically negotiating for us during this whole process. I am not sure if I am for it or against it; I'm waiting until I can actually read the language my union put together for me before I make a decision.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard this straight out of a union guy's mouth about six months ago:

First is that you will be able to drop trips around your vacation and be docked the pay, same exact way we do it now.

Second is that the company, management, Scott, Brad, whoever, has NO BEARING on the PBS system. The only thing the company does is make the pairings, then they send the pairings to the PBS company. Then we send our preferences to the PBS company, the PBS company builds all the schedules based on the pairings and preferences provided.

Third is that the union is specifically negotiating for us during this whole process. I am not sure if I am for it or against it; I'm waiting until I can actually read the language my union put together for me before I make a decision.

You are WRONG, the software goes to your IT department, and your scheduling management has full control of the inner workings of the program. WHY do you think they want it so much? It saves them money by TAKING it right out of your wallet, if they want you to train on your days off, you will, if they want you to fly more than you want, you will, if they want you to fly less, you will. Your vacation will be blocked on either side by trips, your accrual rate will be insufficient to get the same amount of days off. Your vacation days will be charges for every day you have off 7 days off, 7 days of vacation charged at 3.75 per day. I could go on for pages, but I won't, if you don't do the research you wont fully believe it either. Brad is gonna jam AOS into your butts sideways, get your lube!
PBR

 

[maxcackel]

Again, I agree with your perception about PBS and our duties after the contract. However, PBS is not going away, whether it's now or later, it's coming. It seems that it is going to be a standard, if you are a DCI carrier. Comair has it. Mesaba and Compass will soon have it. All the Republic companies have it. Skywest has it.

Speed, you make my point exactly, Sheep, who say's it has to come at all. Just because the other carriers have it does not mean we have to. Loose flying because of cost? Our senior pilot group has a lot more to do with it than the money saved by pbs. We don't control flying Delta does. Look at Comair, they took a pay cut or freeze and were did that get them. If we keep letting the Airlines pushing us back McDonalds will be a better job in 5-10 more years.
At this rate in 10 years our pay will be less than now and will work many more day's a year for it, my insurance was $30/month five years ago and now it's $91 will it be $250, travel will be 10% off retail and they will charge us to ride the bus into the airport to offset the cost of more bus's.


This just need's to stop! I would rather go the way of Comair than the way of Mesa if nothing else to preserve something for future people in this business. Better yet the model of the Major/Regional plan has outrun it's coarse and needs to be all in one. I think the Major managment want's it for wipsaw and the Major pilot's wanted it so their military buddies did not have to fly little planes. But is it still worth it? Is it a time for change?

 

[Speedtape]

Again, I agree with your perception about PBS and our duties after the contract. However, PBS is not going away, whether it's now or later, it's coming. It seems that it is going to be a standard, if you are a DCI carrier. Comair has it. Mesaba and Compass will soon have it. All the Republic companies have it. Skywest has it.

Speed, you make my point exactly, Sheep, who say's it has to come at all. Just because the other carriers have it does not mean we have to. Loose flying because of cost? Our senior pilot group has a lot more to do with it than the money saved by pbs. We don't control flying Delta does. Look at Comair, they took a pay cut or freeze and were did that get them. If we keep letting the Airlines pushing us back McDonalds will be a better job in 5-10 more years.
At this rate in 10 years our pay will be less than now and will work many more day's a year for it, my insurance was $30/month five years ago and now it's $91 will it be $250, travel will be 10% off retail and they will charge us to ride the bus into the airport to offset the cost of more bus's.

Our pilot group has senior pilots, just as does Comair, Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Skywest. I would imagine that the numbers are similar. Compass is the exception, but there are some interesting rumors out there about their longevity. PBS is the norm and a standard with DCI. There are major differences in the different products and AOS is probably the worst from a Pilot perspective. However, friends at some other airlines claim that they would not want to go back to line bidding at Delta, NWA, and Virgin. I know that PBS is a slippery slope, but I think it can be a better way to make a schedule with the right program, the right rule sets, and pilot participation in the administration of it. They have succeeded at Delta. In regard to costs, Insurance has gone up across the board at every Company. Our insurance coverage is still pretty good and the cost is competitive as compared to other companies. I don't have a rebuttal for the pass benefits, but like you, I expect that they will continue to change. Finally, Comair is being punished for their strike and to compare what is going on there, at least at this point, is not a good comparision.


This just need's to stop! I would rather go the way of Comair than the way of Mesa if nothing else to preserve something for future people in this business. Better yet the model of the Major/Regional plan has outrun it's coarse and needs to be all in one. I think the Major managment want's it for wipsaw and the Major pilot's wanted it so their military buddies did not have to fly little planes. But is it still worth it? Is it a time for change?

You loaded up the plate with that paragraph. For sure, things have changed and will continue to do so. In most areas, we have little control. To answer your question, it's always time for change! Is it worth it--It's still a pretty darn good job, especially compared to not working.

The End

 

[Clarence]

I rarely chime in on these boards but I cant help it.

Even if the union can find a way to offset most or even all of the losses we would incure, vacation time, etc., every one of our bids would now be blind. How could you tell what some junior or senior to you bid? Without transparency there is no accountability.

We have the power to vote NO. The reasons to vote NO are longer than our shrinking seniority list.

Spread the word, especially to your FOs.

 

[samballs]

I rarely chime in on these boards but I cant help it.

Even if the union can find a way to offset most or even all of the losses we would incure, vacation time, etc., every one of our bids would now be blind. How could you tell what some junior or senior to you bid? Without transparency there is no accountability.

We have the power to vote NO. The reasons to vote NO are longer than our shrinking seniority list.

Spread the word, especially to your FOs.

When the awards are published the bid is published with the award at Comair.

 

[SLUF4]

I think we should listen to what our fellow pilots at other airlines are telling us about PBS

 

[USCtrojan]

Again, I agree with your perception about PBS and our duties after the contract. However, PBS is not going away, whether it's now or later, it's coming. It seems that it is going to be a standard, if you are a DCI carrier. Comair has it. Mesaba and Compass will soon have it. All the Republic companies have it. Skywest has it.

Speed, you make my point exactly, Sheep, who say's it has to come at all. Just because the other carriers have it does not mean we have to. Loose flying because of cost? Our senior pilot group has a lot more to do with it than the money saved by pbs. We don't control flying Delta does. Look at Comair, they took a pay cut or freeze and were did that get them. If we keep letting the Airlines pushing us back McDonalds will be a better job in 5-10 more years.
At this rate in 10 years our pay will be less than now and will work many more day's a year for it, my insurance was $30/month five years ago and now it's $91 will it be $250, travel will be 10% off retail and they will charge us to ride the bus into the airport to offset the cost of more bus's.


This just need's to stop! I would rather go the way of Comair than the way of Mesa if nothing else to preserve something for future people in this business. Better yet the model of the Major/Regional plan has outrun it's coarse and needs to be all in one. I think the Major managment want's it for wipsaw and the Major pilot's wanted it so their military buddies did not have to fly little planes. But is it still worth it? Is it a time for change?

We have a senior pilot group at ASA because we have not grown in a long while, and because no Legacy Carriers have been hiring lately. We need to grow to become a more "Junior" airline. SkyWest has just as many Senior Pilots as ASA, but they have more Junior Pilots due to their size. That may change if they are forced to furlough (hope not).

Point is, we must remain competitive. Would you be willing to take a pay cut? I'm not, unless it brings 80 of our own back to work. I don't see that, however. I've talked to my Captain's Reps about all the potential changes PBS would possibly bring. It's quite amazing. I encourage you to call your Rep and ask rather than speculate on FI. As far as I know, the Company is willing to get the most expensive PBS system out there because it saves ASA money, all things considered. Whatever system we have (flightline most likely is my guess), SkyWest will have as well. (Your welcome guys, again) Additionally, we are not having it rammed down our throat. This is a unique opportunity to have PBS with ALL of our input, vs. the Company forcing us to use it with little or no input.

If we can grow (SkyW Inc has it as top priority), we get 80 of our own back on the property and you can upgrade that much quicker. Your QOL will improve because you have many many more options. If we continue to shrink, you will either, not have a job, or your QOL will continue to get worse and worse regardless of the bidding system we have in place.

Trojan

 

[Clarence]

Stop dispensing the Koolaid. Stand up for yourselves and vote NO on PBS!

 

[USCtrojan]

Stop dispensing the Koolaid. Stand up for yourselves and vote NO on PBS!

Go help the economy, spend all your money and declare bankruptcy. That way, everyone else benefits but you.

Trojan

 

[jstyle13]

This is a unique opportunity to have PBS with ALL of our input, vs. the Company forcing us to use it with little or no input.

Mabye I'm missing how all this works but how can we be forced to use PBS if we don't pass it via a vote?

 

[Clarence]

Thats Koolaid point number one. Make everyone feel as if PBS is inevitable. " you might as well have some say". Thats nonsense. Just Vote NO!

Unless of course you're in the top 20% of Captains, than by all means, take a chance.

 

[USCtrojan]

Mabye I'm missing how all this works but how can we be forced to use PBS if we don't pass it via a vote?

True, it must be passed by a majority, and it will be subject to a vote.

Trojan

 

[USCtrojan]

Thats Koolaid point number one. Make everyone feel as if PBS is inevitable. " you might as well have some say". Thats nonsense. Just Vote NO!

Unless of course you're in the top 20% of Captains, than by all means, take a chance.

Clarence, who in the Union did you talk to about PBS? Have you even spoken to anyone with any factual information, or are your spouting the "PBS SUCKS" because because because because of all the crappy things it does....?

Will you be willing to take a paycut in order to keep our current bidding system? We're gonna have to stay in line with everyone else. Too expensive=dead.

Trojan

 

[jstyle13]

Clarence, who in the Union did you talk to about PBS? Have you even spoken to anyone with any factual information, or are your spouting the "PBS SUCKS" because because because because of all the crappy things it does....?

Will you be willing to take a paycut in order to keep our current bidding system? We're gonna have to stay in line with everyone else. Too expensive=dead.

Trojan

I'm basing my opinion on PBS from what I hear from other airlines that have it and the guys I've talked to. Most of em seem to dislike it=my reasoning. Of course I'm willing to hear what they say about it.....

 

[USCtrojan]

I'm basing my opinion on PBS from what I hear from other airlines that have it and the guys I've talked to. Most of em seem to dislike it=my reasoning. Of course I'm willing to hear what they say about it.....

Why don't you talk to your Union Reps? Every PBS is different at every airline due to pilot input. I've talked to DU and NT the Cap'n Reps at length--DU anyway. He was a staunch opposer to it all until he saw how PBS will be implemented at ASA. Why don't you call your rep, and ask him. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by what you hear. Just my opinion, but it's better than FI bs.

Trojan

 

[maxcackel]

Pbs saves money how? Less people needed, why is that a good thing for us? We have 80 out now. Lower bid position on the airplane, a pay cut because of less day's off a year, blind bidding, and the list goes on.

Sure the senior guy's including the union members you talk about might see a benefit in it, but the junior people will suffer for it.

 

[blesko]

What about the AdOpt system, and I refuse to talk to my union reps due to the face one specifically told me during the contract neg and "bonus" dispersion that if you dont like it, vote us out, because that's the way we're doing it, even though some of us are working on fiscal masters degrees and might know more than them. Anyway long story short, anyone brought this up yet? If you want specific days off, you get a bank of points to use to bid specific days off.

Not that I'm into helping the company out by any stretch of the imagination. I'll do my job, to the best of my ability, however, they talk about PBS, but ZERO on who, and what software they will use. BRING ON THE DEETS FIRST!!!! then allow us to make a decision.

 

[USCtrojan]

Pbs saves money how? Less people needed, why is that a good thing for us? We have 80 out now. Lower bid position on the airplane, a pay cut because of less day's off a year, blind bidding, and the list goes on.

Sure the senior guy's including the union members you talk about might see a benefit in it, but the junior people will suffer for it.

We don't get PBS, there will be a lot more than 80 that will hit the street. I haven't seen any details on PBS at ASA, you have? You've already made your decision based on speculation on FI? Please tell me what else to expect, because the people I've talked to on the working group say pretty much opposite of what you're talking about.

Our current bidding system "benefits the senior group." The bottom scheds are crap now.

Trojan

 

[USCtrojan]

What about the AdOpt system, and I refuse to talk to my union reps due to the face one specifically told me during the contract neg and "bonus" dispersion that if you dont like it, vote us out, because that's the way we're doing it, even though some of us are working on fiscal masters degrees and might know more than them. Anyway long story short, anyone brought this up yet? If you want specific days off, you get a bank of points to use to bid specific days off.

Not that I'm into helping the company out by any stretch of the imagination. I'll do my job, to the best of my ability, however, they talk about PBS, but ZERO on who, and what software they will use. BRING ON THE DEETS FIRST!!!! then allow us to make a decision.

Good idea, rather than talk to the only people who know anything about PBS (at ASA), you stick your head in the sand. If you believe some people who are representing you are not truthful, you need to start asking questions....This way you can piece together what you need to know and what you are hearing.

There's gonna be positives and negatives to this system. It won't be all positive and it won't be all negative as others have written. Think about the benefits of having it vs. not. Don't take my word for it, write BH. I did. I've talked to both the Company and Union at length over it. You'd be surprised what you learn if you just dig a little.

Trojan