How about this for PBS at ASA

73belair

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Before anyone pipes up about why I am not putting this in the ALPA boards... I did. This gets more press however.

I've talked to quite a few people who think its a good idea, and I finally got off my a$$ to actually post it.
To me one of the biggest things we will lose with PBS is time. Specifically vacation, which we all know we can do a bunch of things to turn a week into almost two. Why not lead in and lead out days? Like 3 on each side? That would give us a buffer so that PBS won't create a schedule that stops on your first day of vacation, and starts at the end of your last. I think Netjets has a system like that. I really don't think it would be much of a change for the company because, like I said earlier, we can pretty much get that time now if we want to. Either be it by bidding a trip where the days off give you more time, or bidding reserve GDOs so that they give you the time off.
I don't know about you all, but I'm not going to be voting for PBS unless we get something worthwhile in return. This would be a big step in the right direction for me.

Thoughts?
 

maxcackel

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You guy's are driving me nuts with this. There is no benefit to the pilot group to take pbs, and don't say to keep our jobs. Our jobs are not dependent on pbs. Belair you want six day's? That is several day's less than you can get now so what is the benifet in that? I am all onboard to help the company where I can but my quality of life has been deterieted so much already in the last four or five years I just can't give anymore. If you let the company have pbs their will probably be a honeymoon for a time with it untill the company find's the loop holes to squeeze the pilot's especially during the next contract neg. Just like they have done with scheduling now, how many loop holes have they used with that? The newest one is they give out Ready Reserve six day's out which is what we wanted but now assign it at 6am the day after your golden day's when your reserve time is 12pm or 6pm so you have to comute on you last golden day. That is abuse just to do it. Let's see Con's of PBS. 1. many less day's off a year. 2. Can't look at the lines to bid away from overnights you don't want or do want. 3.More effecient for the company means less quality of life for you and less line's needed so you drop several numbers for bidding, more furlough's?. 4. I don't care what the MEC put in for rules, the first time doing this they can't think of all the way's to protect us from the company. Why do you think the company does not make our bidding system better now, they don't want you to be happy with it and won't care if we get pbs, "Can't be any worse than what we have". Let's see what the pro's are. 1. Company save's money. Not enough to give up my quality of life. I get a raise every year that is taken back by higher insurance cost and higher travel benifets that keep going down in quality. Please don't give up one of the last thing we have left for a reason to work at the airlines, time off.
It is like some sort of syndrom were people start talking about something and like sheep we all have to follow.
 

GopherEvertt?

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Unless you are in the top 1/3 of seniority in your base, PBS is more of a hindrance than a help.

When bidding vacations with PBS you will only get maybe a day or two more off a month than a non vacation month, plus you're burning PDOs to do it.
 

73belair

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Trust me I'm not saying I want this thing. But I don't really think that our union shares that. I'm just saying that if it is going to happen at least we could ask for something that will help to retain some of our QQL. I have heard nothing that the union is asking for, and I'm sure they wouldn't want to let that cat out of the bag just yet. But at the least I'd like to see something like lead days and for sure holiday pay, which not only does Skywest get, but our FAs get now too.
 

trip

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If you want days off at the front and back of your vacation how about bidding days off at the front and back end of your vacation. It's not rocket science guys. PBS has been good to me, if I had to go back to bidding lines and trying to find one that didn't suck worse than the others I think I would cry.
 

sweptback

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If you want days off at the front and back of your vacation how about bidding days off at the front and back end of your vacation. It's not rocket science guys. PBS has been good to me, if I had to go back to bidding lines and trying to find one that didn't suck worse than the others I think I would cry.
There's a problem with that.

With our current line bidding system, if you want to extend your vacation you bid 4-days over the weekends and request the conflicting trips to be dropped. Almost anybody can hold 4-days over the weekends, so almost anybody can turn a week of vacation into 14+ days.

Now, if you were forced to only be able to bid days off around your vacation, then you'd be forced to bid weekends off which not everybody can hold. So, it really would be a crapshoot for somebody at the 50% mark or lower to get the two weekends off they need. Then, since you already used your days off for the weekend, you're stuck working during the week which limits your time off to 10 or 12 days.

Hopefully our union is addressing these problems, since I'm sure they know that there's no way PBS will pass without some way to maximize vacation.
 

maxcackel

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Trust me I'm not saying I want this thing. But I don't really think that our union shares that. I'm just saying that if it is going to happen at least we could ask for something that will help to retain some of our QQL. I have heard nothing that the union is asking for, and I'm sure they wouldn't want to let that cat out of the bag just yet. But at the least I'd like to see something like lead days and for sure holiday pay, which not only does Skywest get, but our FAs get now too.
Belair, who cares what our union thinks we are the one's that vote. You and others act like we are already defeated so might as well deal with it "I'm just saying that if it is going to happen at least we.....". Why do you say this but you don't want it.

Please everyone, the union has to be positive to keep face with the company to abide by the contract agreement in reviewing pbs. If the MEC came out of the gate saying it sucks the company would cry foul. And don't forget how senior the MEC is, it won't effect them as bad if it does pass.

Name something good pbs does for the pilot's, don't say save's the company money because so would taking a 5 dollar an hour pay cut. Do you want to give that next, might as well.
 
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Data

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With our current line bidding system, if you want to extend your vacation you bid 4-days over the weekends and request the conflicting trips to be dropped. Almost anybody can hold 4-days over the weekends, so almost anybody can turn a week of vacation into 14+ days.
The laughable part about all this is that we're b!tching about not being able to string 7 days into 14 days. What would be nice is if we could just use vacation days as replacements, day by day, to working days. But coming from someone who just strung vacation and GDO days into 3 weeks, I guess I should shut the hel! up.
 

maxcackel

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Why is that laughable? It is a perk we have, one of the few left. We use to have lot's of perks in this job and they are leaving piece by piece. Only we have control over this one for now.
 

PBRstreetgang

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You guy's are driving me nuts with this. There is no benefit to the pilot group to take pbs, and don't say to keep our jobs. Our jobs are not dependent on pbs. Belair you want six day's? That is several day's less than you can get now so what is the benifet in that? I am all onboard to help the company where I can but my quality of life has been deterieted so much already in the last four or five years I just can't give anymore. If you let the company have pbs their will probably be a honeymoon for a time with it untill the company find's the loop holes to squeeze the pilot's especially during the next contract neg. Just like they have done with scheduling now, how many loop holes have they used with that? The newest one is they give out Ready Reserve six day's out which is what we wanted but now assign it at 6am the day after your golden day's when your reserve time is 12pm or 6pm so you have to comute on you last golden day. That is abuse just to do it. Let's see Con's of PBS. 1. many less day's off a year. 2. Can't look at the lines to bid away from overnights you don't want or do want. 3.More effecient for the company means less quality of life for you and less line's needed so you drop several numbers for bidding, more furlough's?. 4. I don't care what the MEC put in for rules, the first time doing this they can't think of all the way's to protect us from the company. Why do you think the company does not make our bidding system better now, they don't want you to be happy with it and won't care if we get pbs, "Can't be any worse than what we have". Let's see what the pro's are. 1. Company save's money. Not enough to give up my quality of life. I get a raise every year that is taken back by higher insurance cost and higher travel benifets that keep going down in quality. Please don't give up one of the last thing we have left for a reason to work at the airlines, time off.
It is like some sort of syndrom were people start talking about something and like sheep we all have to follow.
Finally someone who gets it!
Brad is gonna try to bait and switch the AOS POS. Its cheap and hands the company(Brad) all the aces, there are so many loopholes and dark corners you will never regain pairity. PBS means one thing and one thing only, its gonna cost the pilots and the company gets all the advantage. The #1 Capt. bids commuteable trips by pairing, all his trips went to JR guys and KH said he had no idea why it went that way. Chain the doors shut, strike or work stoppage to keep it away. It was the single worst change to our situation EVER!
PBr
 

LazyLightnin'

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Vote No!

Another negative. No more being paired together for an entire month. I'll pass on having to get use to another captain's little idiosyncrasies every single trip. Another QOL minus 1.
 
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Speedtape

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Funny--I thought "WE" were the Union! You guys speak as though it is a third person! And, if that is the perspective you have, there will be no accountabulity and someone else will run or ruin your life.
 

CFIT

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What ever you guys at ASA do, do not go with AOS PBS.

AOS absolutlely sucks, and I bid fairly senior.

Say no to AOS PBS.
 

PooPooPants

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Why is that laughable? It is a perk we have, one of the few left. We use to have lot's of perks in this job and they are leaving piece by piece. Only we have control over this one for now.
Max is exactly right. Right now the our paychecks are bad but not terrible for the amount of time we are capable of getting off. If we start working more days per year for the same pay, well that makes our hourly pay rate significantly less. It would kind of be like making teachers work over the summer without a increase in salary.
 

maxcackel

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Funny--I thought "WE" were the Union! You guys speak as though it is a third person! And, if that is the perspective you have, there will be no accountabulity and someone else will run or ruin your life.
I am not anti union but it became "We" to me when the union said in the crew lounge during the so called retro check distribution that the Union was going to what IT thought was best and not let US vote on it and if WE did not like it to vote new mec members in. The arrogance of that statement left me with a new perspective on what was in the best interest for me. I have started to get the feeling that the union is there to help me because I pay my protection money but don't question them.

I am also very pro company now with the changes that have been made. I am somewhat proud again of ASA and alway's knew the employee's could shine if given the chance to. I will do everything in my power to get flights out on time and save the company money or make it money they get for our performance. But am unwilling to give up my quality of life for it. If management was asked to just give up one Sunday a month for no pay to help the company out do you think they would?

I try to keep my opinions off of these boards but after the weak ass pathetic vote turnout for the fourlough fund it scared the crap out me for the turn out for pbs. I thought that pbs was in the contract for discussion to get the company to finally sign off on the contract and that in 18 months we would say "yeah we looked at it and no thanks". Everyone I know say's no way but I am hearing other people start to say "Its coming might as well get what ever crumb we can" is terrible.
 

Speedtape

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I am not anti union but it became "We" to me when the union said in the crew lounge during the so called retro check distribution that the Union was going to what IT thought was best and not let US vote on it and if WE did not like it to vote new mec members in. The arrogance of that statement left me with a new perspective on what was in the best interest for me. I have started to get the feeling that the union is there to help me because I pay my protection money but don't question them.

Not doubting your claim, but who specifically made that statement? And, if they did say it, I would honor their challenge and replace that person or persons. Understand that putting something to vote does not guarantee the best solution, because whatever was put to vote would have to be defined. I doubt that any plan would have gotten popular support (whatever that may be.) In the end, the pay distribution was voted on and passed--along with the contract.

I am also very pro company now with the changes that have been made. I am somewhat proud again of ASA and alway's knew the employee's could shine if given the chance to. I will do everything in my power to get flights out on time and save the company money or make it money they get for our performance. But am unwilling to give up my quality of life for it. If management was asked to just give up one Sunday a month for no pay to help the company out do you think they would?
Hear, Hear! I think everyone agrees with your effort! However, isn't that effort simply doing your job well? Good Performance in the DCI world is the only thing that guarantees that a carrier will still be a part of the team. I agree with your statement of giving up quality of life. However, beware, if the economy continues to show downward trend, the concessionary Grim Reaper will be at your door step to rob you of your hard earned gains and quality of life! PBS is just camel trying to get it's nose in the tent!

I try to keep my opinions off of these boards but after the weak ass pathetic vote turnout for the fourlough fund it scared the crap out me for the turn out for pbs. I thought that pbs was in the contract for discussion to get the company to finally sign off on the contract and that in 18 months we would say "yeah we looked at it and no thanks". Everyone I know say's no way but I am hearing other people start to say "Its coming might as well get what ever crumb we can" is terrible.
Again, I agree with your perception about PBS and our duties after the contract. However, PBS is not going away, whether it's now or later, it's coming. It seems that it is going to be a standard, if you are a DCI carrier. Comair has it. Mesaba and Compass will soon have it. All the Republic companies have it. Skywest has it. Mesa does not matter. ASA and Pinnacle do not have it and at this point is not even close. If we want to remain competitive and in the "norm" of DCI, we may be forced to implement it, or miss out on future flying.

AOS, apparently sucks and should not be considered. Navtech is what the Delta pilots have and it seems to have gained acceptance after 3 years of a learning curve. The Flightline product is just coming to market and apparently is being implemented at Virgin. It is suppose to be the new and improved PBS! If you know someone at Virgin, I would suggest giving them a call.
 
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