How about this for PBS at ASA

[79%N1]

Good question. I guess the only way that would work is the dropper forgoes the pay credit if he drops, and the person picking up just gets the credit for the block. Might not work with our crack payroll staff, I suppose, but it would be really nice to be able to do.

 

[SSDD]

That's one of those things you have to be clear on. At Skywest, if you drop a trip, or part of it, you forgo the pay unless you take vacation, or user time. Then the company puts it in open time for straight flight time pay, no premiums, or minimum guarantee.

If you work a trade straight across with somebody, where you assign the trip to them, then they get paid the whole amount.

 

[spudskier]

some days I would kill to be able to drop the last round trip and just go home... it's worth the pay loss. Especially if it was going to make my commute home easier...

OOOO How about more bases in exchange for PBS (I know, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other, I just want at least ONE other base)

 

[sweptback]

OOOO How about more bases in exchange for PBS (I know, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other, I just want at least ONE other base)

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[spudskier]

Be careful what you wish for.

Seriously!? ASA opening another base? When pigs fly... mgt is too scared/scared.

it's not even a negotiating tool! Just my crack-@$$ mind's way of working and wishing I never had to see Atlanta ever again.

 

[Speedtape]

That's one of those things you have to be clear on. At Skywest, if you drop a trip, or part of it, you forgo the pay unless you take vacation, or user time. Then the company puts it in open time for straight flight time pay, no premiums, or minimum guarantee.

If you work a trade straight across with somebody, where you assign the trip to them, then they get paid the whole amount.

Will you explain the straight across trade in regard to the whole amount? Define the whole amount, please!

Thanks

 

[SSDD]

Say I want to get rid of a trip that pays 13:25 for 10 hrs and 15 minutes of flying in two days. You want to pick that trip up, and are legal to do it, so you and I get together, I assign it to you, you pick it up for 13:25. Done deal. There is a feature in PBS that allows it.

But if I dropped it into open time, the company turns around and offers it for the flight time, 10:15. They saved themselves 3:10 in the deal.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

How about in exchange for PBS, we negotiate the ability to drop portions of trips - or at least allow us to put portions into an open time pot.

Denied, Low Coverage

 

[Speedtape]

Say I want to get rid of a trip that pays 13:25 for 10 hrs and 15 minutes of flying in two days. You want to pick that trip up, and are legal to do it, so you and I get together, I assign it to you, you pick it up for 13:25. Done deal. There is a feature in PBS that allows it.

But if I dropped it into open time, the company turns around and offers it for the flight time, 10:15. They saved themselves 3:10 in the deal.

Got it! So if I were to pick a trip up in open time that another pilot submitted, I only get block and no credit.

In the case where you place the trip into open time, I assume that you are still responsible for the trip until someone actually picks it up?

If the Company has time in open time, and you pick it up, do you get the credit then? Do you guys still get time and 1/2 for open time pickup of company posted open time?

 

[79%N1]

Denied, Low Coverage

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

You know it's coming.

 

[SSDD]

Got it! So if I were to pick a trip up in open time that another pilot submitted, I only get block and no credit.

In the case where you place the trip into open time, I assume that you are still responsible for the trip until someone actually picks it up?

If the Company has time in open time, and you pick it up, do you get the credit then? Do you guys still get time and 1/2 for open time pickup of company posted open time?

1. Yes

2. There is a window right after the bids come out where you can drop and pick up trips. After that you are responsible until someone picks it up.

3. Time and 1/2 doesn't kick in until 72 hrs before the begining of the trip. I guess you could negotiate any time period. Right now with the overstaffing, we haven't seen time and 1/2 for quite a while.

Hope that helps.

 

[Speedtape]

1. Yes

2. There is a window right after the bids come out where you can drop and pick up trips. After that you are responsible until someone picks it up.

3. Time and 1/2 doesn't kick in until 72 hrs before the begining of the trip. I guess you could negotiate any time period. Right now with the overstaffing, we haven't seen time and 1/2 for quite a while.

Hope that helps.

Thanks, alot.

 

[Nightrain_080]

Just don't do it. P>ure B>ull S>hyte
It will be great when you get your vacation month with 14 days off and 77 hours of block with 104 credit. That's PBS. No time off from work just a payout for you to pretend to rest.

 

[Speedtape]

It appears that the Company no longer wants it! Good, neither do any of the pilots!

 

[wms]

If you want days off at the front and back of your vacation how about bidding days off at the front and back end of your vacation. It's not rocket science guys. PBS has been good to me, if I had to go back to bidding lines and trying to find one that didn't suck worse than the others I think I would cry.

I think they were planning on building your line and then plugging in vaca. Then overlapping trips could be dropped. With our mmg calculations the company actually saves alot of money when we drop trips outside the vacation foot print.

 

[Speedtape]

I think they were planning on building your line and then plugging in vaca. Then overlapping trips could be dropped. With our mmg calculations the company actually saves alot of money when we drop trips outside the vacation foot print.

With all due respect, that is not how it works. All PBS systems place the known absences on your line FIRST! Then you bid and, subsequently, the system will not award any conflicting trips--ones that overlap your vacation footprint. All awarded, or assigned trips will be outside the footprint--no conficts, no overlaps!

The main concept of any PBS system is to create additional days of Pilot availability by avoiding conflicts--both during integration and any other known non-flying absences assigned to a pilot in a month. So, to address your presumption, your known absence vacation or training event is plugged in first, then you bid, and the system is designed not to award trips that overlap or conflict with those events or any other known absence.

Another misunderstood concept, at least partially, is PBS does not favor only the Senior pilots on the Seniority list. Within each position bid, trips are awarded, at least to some degree, relative to the Seniority in those bidding positions. At ASA, there are 4 different position awards. As an example, when the program runs the CR2 F/O award, the the awarding of trips to build a line, will be executed in Seniority order, within the CR2 F/O position. This is really no different than how things work today. You can get what your seniority will hold when the bidding program gets to you.

However, some of the earlier systems work on a Global Solution, whereas, the software goes through the bids, and in the ends awards trips, not necessarily on Seniority, but what is best for an overall solutution--a benefit to the Company. AOS is an example of this type system. The latest system(s), one but maybe partially 2, award trips like lines are awarded today--seniority within each position.

In the end, in any system, you have to understand how trips are awarded, what your seniority will hold, and learn how to properly bid for that system and your seniority. Under some of the earlier systems, you may not always get what you want, even with your seniority, and if through your bidding, if you can't hit the target, then the software will award you a trip(s) so that it gets you to the target.

PBS is more complicated for the Pilot in the bidding process. However, if a Pilot learns to bid, he can actually be awarded a line that is much better than he could ever get under line-bidding. The burden is on the Pilot.

 

[wms]

With all due respect, that is not how it works. All PBS systems place the known absences on your line FIRST! Then you bid and, subsequently, the system will not award any conflicting trips--ones that overlap your vacation footprint. All awarded, or assigned trips will be outside the footprint--no conficts, no overlaps!

The main concept of any PBS system is to create additional days of Pilot availability by avoiding conflicts--both during integration and any other known non-flying absences assigned to a pilot in a month. So, to address your presumption, your known absence vacation or training event is plugged in first, then you bid, and the system is designed not to award trips that overlap or conflict with those events or any other known absence.

Another misunderstood concept, at least partially, is PBS does not favor only the Senior pilots on the Seniority list. Within each position bid, trips are awarded, at least to some degree, relative to the Seniority in those bidding positions. At ASA, there are 4 different position awards. As an example, when the program runs the CR2 F/O award, the the awarding of trips to build a line, will be executed in Seniority order, within the CR2 F/O position. This is really no different than how things work today. You can get what your seniority will hold when the bidding program gets to you.

However, some of the earlier systems work on a Global Solution, whereas, the software goes through the bids, and in the ends awards trips, not necessarily on Seniority, but what is best for an overall solutution--a benefit to the Company. AOS is an example of this type system. The latest system(s), one but maybe partially 2, award trips like lines are awarded today--seniority within each position.

In the end, in any system, you have to understand how trips are awarded, what your seniority will hold, and learn how to properly bid for that system and your seniority. Under some of the earlier systems, you may not always get what you want, even with your seniority, and if through your bidding, if you can't hit the target, then the software will award you a trip(s) so that it gets you to the target.

PBS is more complicated for the Pilot in the bidding process. However, if a Pilot learns to bid, he can actually be awarded a line that is much better than he could ever get under line-bidding. The burden is on the Pilot.

Airlines can negotiate changes to PBS. Technically it would not be hard, just drop what conflicts. And I was told ASA was working towards this option because pilots lose a lot of money, and the company saves, with MMG formulas. But if PBS is dead at ASA then it's not worth getting your drawers in a bunch.

I'm glad it's dead if in fact it is.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I bitched about PBS . . . until we got it. My lines have never been better.

 

[Speedtape]

Airlines can negotiate changes to PBS. Technically it would not be hard, just drop what conflicts. And I was told ASA was working towards this option because pilots lose a lot of money, and the company saves, with MMG formulas. But if PBS is dead at ASA then it's not worth getting your drawers in a bunch.

I'm glad it's dead if in fact it is.

Airlines(MGMT) can always negotiate changes in PBS, and for that matter any other contractual work rules. Conversely, Labor can do the same.

Maybe, I was not clear. Conflicting trips are not awarded. That is the whole objective of PBS. By avoiding conflicts, Pilot availabilty is increased. That is where the cost savings is to the company. At some point, in effect, they have more Pilot availabilty, which means they can do more work with less staffing, particularly in a growth period or an increase in block hours. It gives the Company some Flex.

My guess is PBS is not dead, but dormant. It will not go away for the long term.