Horizon Air

[qxpilot]

I think the dash class was for the 17th of November. People don't transition to aircraft here at Horizon because of our wonderful system that punishes you if you do. If I were to bid the Jet I would go to the lowest payscale (I make RJ pay now), and then get seat locked for 2 years. Once you get hired into an aircraft, that is where you will stay for 5 yrs till you upgrade.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Hey qxpilot:

How does the system "punish" you if you switch aircraft?

Thinking of applying, but want to live in SEA or PDX. If I were to get hired and sent to DEN, can I transfer back west? Would I have to, or could I switch aircraft to get to SEA?

Thanks for your response.

GP

 

[sioux1]

I know that 20 hours of CRJ sim time sounds good, but I would rather have an FO with previous "real" flying expreience rather than book smart when it's midnight and you are doing a LOC BC to a 6500 foot runway with blowing snow and a cross wind.





I guess you have never been flying in north dakota. I don't think they have a day where the snow isn't blowing with a cross wind. I would guess that any 750 hr pilot who graduated from UND has a much better xwind landing technique than you. At least that is what I have found.

 

[dogman]

In real life, experience does count! Oh, by the way I went to UND too.

 

[CrazyErnie]

I would rather have an FO with previous "real" flying expreience rather than book smart when it's midnight and you are doing a LOC BC to a 6500 foot runway with blowing snow and a cross wind.

Funny you should mention that... because that is exactly what I WILL be doing about the time November rolls around. Only I'll be doing it on a smaller runway, in a much less capable aircraft than you fly, and with a student who is unintentionally trying to kill us both the whole time. Oh, and it will probably be 1am.

Yours truly,
a beloved UNDie

 

[belchfire]

Funny you should mention that... because that is exactly what I WILL be doing about the time November rolls around. Only I'll be doing it on a smaller runway, in a much less capable aircraft than you fly, and with a student who is unintentionally trying to kill us both the whole time. Oh, and it will probably be 1am.

Yours truly,
a beloved UNDie

the student part I get...but the part about short runways and
"less capable aircraft"...

I guess that you think that all that glowy CRT stuff and turbine
engines make the airplane more capable...well, faster and carry
more, but capable of what? Faster means you need that bigger
runway. Capable of being at a higher speed when the crosswind
blows you off the runway? WTF,O?

If you can really fly the airplane, and fly it within it's limits,
what's the deal? Reversable props just kick up the snow and
white out everything if you leave 'em in too long. The CRJ main
wheels are too close together and the wings too close to the
ground for real good crosswinds, and autopilots just make
pilots even lazier!

I used to think it was normal to land a fully loaded c-207 on a
40X1400 foot ice covered runway with a 25-30kt crosswind...but
that was what ya did in The Greatland...I'm not bragging, cause
there were (and are) guys that did it better than me...everyone
did it,or they went somewhere else. Best frigging experience in
the world. Judgement calls all the time, pushing to be better all
the time...and learning when to walk away. That, my friend is
where it is all at...knowing where your limits, the airframe limits
and the weather all come together and you can make a good
call.

 

[dogman]

well said belchfire. I was trying to say something similar, but my fingers weren't working.

 

[JJJ]

I guess you have never been flying in north dakota. I don't think they have a day where the snow isn't blowing with a cross wind. I would guess that any 750 hr pilot who graduated from UND has a much better xwind landing technique than you. At least that is what I have found.

Actually I have flown in ND, does BIS count? I've also flown on the east coast around the great lakes, the south and the west coast. I would hesitate to say that a UND grad has a better xwind technique than I do. I would guess that they probably have the SAME TECHNIQUE as I do. Crab on final, slip in flare.

I'm not talking about snow that is blowing across the runway, more like lake effect snow in BUF and AZO. Is it normal at UND to fly in know icing conditions in an aircraft that is not certified for know icing conditions?


Flying a CRJ to a 6500 ft runway is like flying a 172 to an 800 foot runway. It can be done safely, but there isn't much room for error.

All of the Gee-wiz stuff doesn't help at the end of a LOC-BC. You actually have to fly the a/c to the runway, just like a 172, imagine that.

I don't have anything against UND or Riddle or anything. But when you think you are Joe expert, seasoned pilot due to your top notch training, well, we can all live with out that attitude.

 

[erika]

I don't think the UND guys think they are the most seasoned pilots in the world. At least not most of them. Most think they are competent pilots who can make it through CRJ or ERJ or Dash 8 class without a problem, and serve as competent and professional FO's.

And they are correct, it's happened hundreds of times and at many airlines (Horizon, COEX, Messaba, ACA, etc), and will continue to happen as long as those airlines are pleased with what they get.

And no, UND does not pay the airlines.

Erik

 

[JJJ]

Most of them don't, but some of them do.

Pretty much anyone can make it through training regardless of where they learned to fly at.

The only things it takes to please an airline are to pass training and don't complain.

 

[erika]

Most of who don't what?
UND grads make it through training?

Where did you find _that_ info?

Erik

 

[JJJ]

Sorry most of the UND/Riddle are ok, some of them have the Yeager attitude.

 

[erika]

That is certainly true. I especially liked how many of them thought it was perfectly natural to get a 121 job at <1000TT (in the pre 9/11 world). Those who have been flying longer know different.

However, I do think people get down a bit to much on UND (and Riddle, etc) grads because they are identifiable as a group.

For example, when you fly with someone who is a shmuck and didn't go to one of those school, he or she is just a dork.

If the shmuck is a UND grad (or other), people remember he was a UND grad.

There are lots of pilots who think they are hot stuff.
They are all dorks. If holding a commercial liscence and and a pilot job is the most important thing about an individual, well WOW!!

It's a job people. Although, I admit I really like airplanes, so I'm a dork too---just ask my wife!

Erik

 

[Nick5600]

real planes?

rbowen? You think flying a convair 580 is a real plane? I also see that you have flown the 240. Well in my experience real planes are not death traps! A real plane will keep you alive and safe! I know some of the operators of these aircraft, and if its the same one I worked for I fear for you!

 

[CrazyErnie]

the student part I get...but the part about short runways and
"less capable aircraft"...

I guess that you think that all that glowy CRT stuff and turbine
engines make the airplane more capable...well, faster and carry
more, but capable of what? Faster means you need that bigger
runway. Capable of being at a higher speed when the crosswind
blows you off the runway? WTF,O?

Let's be real! You're telling me that a light single engine piston is just as capable as a CRJ? I suppose you would tell me that a geo metro is pretty much just as extraordinary an automobile as a beamer or a WRX because, after all you would say, they are both automobiles. If they were the same, everybody could stop belly-aching about college grad. pilots getting a chance to prove themselves in a larger aircraft.

Secondly, you're saddly mistaken if you think that I look at turbine engines and drool starts pouring out of my mouth and I am enamored by the glory of being an RJ pilot. Yeah, it's probably a lot better than where I'm at right now, but don't forget that every one of you started somewhere.

WHAT? A LARGER, FASTER AIRCRAFT NEEDS MORE RUNWAY? No way!! Good one Captain Obvious.

JJJ, spare me the lecture on different types of snow. College grad pilots should not claim to be better than anybody else, but you cannot assume that just because somebody went and put the time and effort into getting a four-year degree that they are a book nerd who can't tell the difference between flying an aircraft and playing a video game. We can do without that attitude as well.

 

[JJJ]

Well let me know when you are going to be flying GA is weather like that... I wanna watch.

Say what you want, but recent college grads have spent more time is the class room and in the books that in the cockpit.

As for the snow, I'm just suprised that you would train in that kind of weather. You are very brave.

 

[NDPILOT]

Hey Crazy Ernie - i'll bet his RJ can't land on the sidewalk in Minto, or on any of the grass strips in CKN or TVF. I bet his rj can't fly backwards when the wind is blowing right...so maybe your warrior is MORE capbable than his rj. Just because he can go faster doesn't mean it's more capable. The RJ does what it's supposed to do, carry people. The warrior does what's it's supposed to... scare you, and maybe help people learn how to fly.

WHAT? A LARGER, FASTER AIRCRAFT NEEDS MORE RUNWAY? No way!!

But, I bet he can land his rj in a shorter distance than a lot of Undies can land the warrior... I've seem them use all 7900 ft of 35L.

 

[8HourPilot]

I know that 20 hours of CRJ sim time sounds good, but I would rather have an FO with previous "real" flying expreience rather than book smart when it's midnight and you are doing a LOC BC to a 6500 foot runway with blowing snow and a cross wind.


.........AZO

 

[MYFpilot]

I'll take the megawacker anyday over the RJ. Jets are for pussies.

...But props are for boats!!

 

[LearLove]

"props arre for boats"

yeah, but they put jets on boats too these days.

anyway, I get the feeling that this thread is getting way immature.

 

[CrazyErnie]

But, I bet he can land his rj in a shorter distance than a lot of Undies can land the warrior... I've seem them use all 7900 ft of 35L.

NDPILOT

I guess that's how they interpret, "make best use of the runway available" There's no pretending that student training is pretty. I just gotta stand up for the underdog.

-Crazy

 

[Alaskaairlines]

If you guys want to test your skills on short field landings in a cessna, come fly into Birchwood, AK. They have a landing strip (19L) that is about 2500' long, but with only the first five hundred paved, and it also has a threshold that streches about 1000 down the taxiway before its rwy.
Its not hard to land and stop on it if your up to date, I've done it lots of times and with a full plane. If your out in a 152/172 by your self, you can do it in half that.

Just thought I'd post it, maybe some of you know the place?

 

[Freight Dog]

...But props are for boats!!

so jets are for hot-tubs

 

[JJJ]

and boots are for line dancing

 

[belchfire]

Alaskaair...
Back in the good old days Eek was
1400x35...take a full 207 in there
for giggles sometime...in January!

 

[Q200_FO]

Alaskaair...
Back in the good old days Eek was
1400x35...take a full 207 in there
for giggles sometime...in January!

Been there done that...

And Eek is actually about 30' wide and has an upslope to the north since we're being specific about it.

And talk about a thread hijack, somebody asking questions about Horizon and it somehow got turned into a UND pi$$ing match!

 

[LearLove]

like I said, this thing got way out of hand......

 

[Alaskaairlines]

Well I haven't really done any bush flying. Well I don't know if I should say this, but I've taken a C150 into Deshka, about a 1200 foot dirt strip on the Yeska river. It has about a 70 foot obstacle at the end. After that experience I kinda got the feel of what bush pilots do day in and day out.........!

I'd need a little practice with a C207, never flown one. Just all 172's.

 

[500and2]

Big D

Sinner

it would be nice to have an extra hundred hp to pull you out of those small strips!


Eek..... sounds like a rough place to make a living....

for those of you that flew/fly there..... how was your first trip into the strip? And... how short can you get a loaded 207 down?

(Does BET have a target yet?)

 

[Q200_FO]

Eek..... sounds like a rough place to make a living....

My first time in there wasn't too bad. Pretty uneventful. Almost got caught in whiteout around Eek once and almost had to divert back there but it turns out that the vis held out after all and I pressed on back to BET. But, there is a reason why that airport is called Eek. Whenever a piot tries to land on it and he realizes that he screwed up and may go off the end, he yells, EEK!!!!!!!

Old bush pilot story.