Hold on tight

[Fresh Air]

And what if Aero Boy is correct again?

Thought I was done with this thread, but there's one more point that needs to be discussed.

If Aero Boy's info is correct again, Ricci's plan is to put the CS pilots out on the street.

The "evil" Teamsters lawyers have stated that buying over 50 percent of CS assets would constitute buying that carrier, and M-B would be in effect, meaning that your pilots would have to be integrated rather than fired.

CS aircraft and accounts receivable would certainly amount to more than 50% of CS assets.

If the CS pilots are represented, and Ricci fires you all, guess who will be fighting Flight Options in court to keep your jobs secure? That's right, those "evil" Teamsters that Outerfix wants to kick out the door. That's me, my 300 colleagues at FO, and millions of Teamsters around the country, paying dues to hire lawyers to fight for your jobs.

If you follow the lead of those who want to decertify your Union, and Ricci fires you, then who will be fighting Flight Options? A small group of unemployed pilots.

No doubt Outerfix and whoever else is on the decertification band wagon are only doing what they think is best, from their point of view. Of course, since this is an anonymous message board, who knows what that point of view is? CS pilot? Paid Union buster? FO manager? Who really knows?

Point is, intentional or not, some folks are trying to drive off a cliff, and encouraging the CS pilot group to follow.

 

[OHGOON]

Outerfix,

It's been said here more than once. It will be DOH and fences with the Teamsters and it will be something similar to that without them. What you have not answered is how you are going to represent yourself in front of the inevitable arbitrator? Who is going to pay for the lawyers you are going to need? Who is going to come up with a common strategy to present your case? WHO IS GOING TO PAY?

What if Ricci decides to "violate" the M-B amendment or try to ignore it? WHO IS GOING TO PAY to take him to court? Are you going to pay all that while on the street collecting unemployment and looking for your next gig?

Arbitration and lawsuits take time and are very expensive...how are you as an unrepresented single individual better off in these scenarios?

 

[AeroBoy]

You all are assuming that Directional is "buying" CitationAir.

 

[Praetorian]

Thought I was done with this thread, but there's one more point that needs to be discussed.

If Aero Boy's info is correct again, Ricci's plan is to put the CS pilots out on the street.

The "evil" Teamsters lawyers have stated that buying over 50 percent of CS assets would constitute buying that carrier, and M-B would be in effect, meaning that your pilots would have to be integrated rather than fired.

CS aircraft and accounts receivable would certainly amount to more than 50% of CS assets.

If the CS pilots are represented, and Ricci fires you all, guess who will be fighting Flight Options in court to keep your jobs secure? That's right, those "evil" Teamsters that Outerfix wants to kick out the door. That's me, my 300 colleagues at FO, and millions of Teamsters around the country, paying dues to hire lawyers to fight for your jobs.

If you follow the lead of those who want to decertify your Union, and Ricci fires you, then who will be fighting Flight Options? A small group of unemployed pilots.

No doubt Outerfix and whoever else is on the decertification band wagon are only doing what they think is best, from their point of view. Of course, since this is an anonymous message board, who knows what that point of view is? CS pilot? Paid Union buster? FO manager? Who really knows?

Point is, intentional or not, some folks are trying to drive off a cliff, and encouraging the CS pilot group to follow.

Well said brother!

 

[jetwash]

You all are assuming that Directional is "buying" CitationAir.

Can you expand on this?

Seeing as you have been proven to have the best info on this topic can you look into the crystal ball and let us know what is up in more detail?

 

[outerfix]

Wow, a lot of ground to cover. First off, It's not the Teamsters saying that buying 50% of the assets would trigger a pilot transfer, it's McCaskill-Bond as I stated at least a week ago.

I never said the Teamsters were evil. Our MEC has a lot of blood sweat and tears into getting this union together and they stuck their necks way out. Our MEC union to the core and is buying everything that the 1108 is selling them. I don't think any independent research has been done on a seniority list integration with the exception of consulting the 1108, which is Option's pilots.

OHGOON, It's been said more then once because you keep saying it. The 1108 is saying things that are flat out false. If we were not Teamsters, we would follow the procedures of Allegany-Mohawk as outlined in McCaskill-Bond. As much as they would like to hope, the Teamsters would not control the process, we would not follow Teamsters merger policy and we would expect a much different outcome then if we were Teamsters.

Aero, An airline has a route structure, we have owner contracts. The contracts are the assets. Whats 50% of a negative asset. I don't know the answer to that. The Midwest/ Republic is the first merger under McCaskill-Bond and I think a good template for what will happen, if anything is going to happen. In the Midwest/Republic merger the FA's got merger integration rights even though the routes were the only things that transferred over.

How to pay for it. Preparing a case for an arbitrator and spending one day in court presenting it is not going to cost a fortune. I think we would get paid back the first Christmas we get to spend at home rather than on the road because of crappy seniority. Fighting the company would take significantly more money, but if we are not willing to fight for what is right then we deserve what we get.

`

 

[Sparse]

Can you expand on this?

Seeing as you have been proven to have the best info on this topic can you look into the crystal ball and let us know what is up in more detail?

I think he said a few replies ago that CA pilots should have their resumes ready.

 

[AeroBoy]

I think he said a few replies ago that CA pilots should have their resumes ready.

The best piece of advice for CitationAir pilots is to hope for the best but plan for the worst. There's no harm in having an updated resume, and I'd hope that many of the CitationAir pilots had already done this months ago, as Cessna/Textron's interest in running a private lift operation has waned with each passing minute since announcing its exit from the fractional business early last year.

 

[NJAowner]

Fo/DAC would probably not be buying that many "assets" of CA. I would see a deal structured where CA just assigns "liabilities" (its obligations under the management contracts) but keeps its assets (tangible and intangible, receivables, etc.). Other than the "core fleet" which FO does not need, the planes belong to the owners and are not the assets of CA. It is issues like these that will have lawyers on one side structuring the deal one way, and the union lawyers advocating for their client's positions.

 

[Fresh Air]

Fo/DAC would probably not be buying that many "assets" of CA. I would see a deal structured where CA just assigns "liabilities" (its obligations under the management contracts) but keeps its assets (tangible and intangible, receivables, etc.). Other than the "core fleet" which FO does not need, the planes belong to the owners and are not the assets of CA. It is issues like these that will have lawyers on one side structuring the deal one way, and the union lawyers advocating for their client's positions.

Thanks for posting that. Gives a bit of perspective from the viewpoint of someone familiar with business dealings instead of just flying planes. So if Directional doesn't pick up CA's assets, then Kenn can do whatever he wants with the crews and this whole integration discussion is kinda moot, huh?