Hey GVFlyer

[Hubie]

I see where you are flying the worlds best bizjet, so if you don’t mind can I ask you a few questions about it?

I’m curious about the similarities it shares with the G-IV such as systems, is it an all-new bird or does it retain the same core systems, for instance. You find the same hydraulic system layout on the IV as you would a III; both utilize the EPMP for electrical logic control, flight power shutoff system, fuel system etc…

Also if you don’t mind my prying, I looked back via the search function and see you have a good deal of “inside” knowledge on Gulfstream operators, do you have any idea why John Deere is selling their V?

Thanks in advance
Hubie

 

[GVFlyer]

The GV shares 40% commonality with the GIV and that is primarily in the center section of the fuselage. The GV is a separate type. All major components on the GV are new:

48" fan 14,750 lbs thrust (15,385 on the GVSP) BR710 FADEC engines. New flying pylon mounts.

Completely new electrical system featuring 2-45 KVA Independent Drive Generators powering 5 AC busses powering 5 TRU's powering 5 DC buses. No EPMP, all functions are automatic.

RE 220 APU starts at 43,000 ft. and provides 100% power for all Main and Essential busses (45 KVA) to 45,000 feet.

Back-up Hydraulic Motor Generator providing 10 KVA - enough to power all essential busses.

New hydraulic and flight control systems offering a Hardover Protection System, jammed flight control protection, split flight control capability and full manual reversion.

New Environmental Control System with automatic 3 zone temperature control.

New CPAM with 10.48 psid pressurization providing a 5960 foot cabin at 51,000 feet.

Honeywell SPZ 8500 FMS with SmartPerf, improved memory and processing capabilities and a new architecture. You can have 3 of these all on line at the same time. No"warm spares".

New Auto-throttle computers.

Automatic anti-ice system which senses ice, turns the wing and cowl anti-ice on, then turns it off 5 minutes after you depart icing conditions.

New 41,300 lb. fuel system with automatic wing fuel heating (Heated Fuel Return System). Still no fuel management required other than insuring that you have enough fuel on board before you take-off.

Fully animated system synoptics on the Engine Indicating and Crew Alerting System displays. Synoptics include: Fuel system, Flight Controls, ECS, Hydraulics, AC electrical system, DC electrical system, Brakes, TCAS, System Summary, MDAU, Waypoints, Engine Start, and door positions.

New avionics include: Signal Generators for the six 9" EFIS Displays, Flight Guidance Computers, Fault Warning Computers, and avionics system based on Integrated Avionics computers. All this will be replaced on the GVSP with Plane View 14.1 inch LCD displays and new generation LRU based miniturized avionics which are 2/3's smaller and weight 220 lbs less. Consequently, the door on the GVSP will move 4 feet forward to give the space gained in the Left and Right Electric Equipment Racks to the passengers.

The new wing was designed by Gulfstream engineers using Boeing (CAD and CATEA) and NASA (Wind Tunnel)facilities. It's manufactured by Northrup Grumman in Dallas. It is immaculate: 93.47 ft span, wide-chord, low wingloading, all-lifting, no stalled regions, no wash-in, no washout, no canoes, no vortilons, and no leading edge devices (none needed, typical VREFs are between 114kts and 125kts). Even the radius going to the winglet is lifting and the winglets are set on at such an angle as to give you a forward thrust vector (like tacking a sailboat into the wind). The wing has been flown in flight test from 74 knots to 1.07 mach.

New Fokker empennage.

The big cabin windows were not "grandfathered." They were tested to ten atmosheres.

The GV is 8 feet longer than the GIV, the wings are 16 feet wider, the weight is 90,500 lbs vs. 74,600 lbs and the GV will fly over 50% farther than the GIV. The GV, like all Gulfstreams flies higher, flies farther, flies faster than it's predecessors while burning less fuel. Yes that's right, the GV will always burn less fuel than the 8 ton lighter GIV: DOC GV $1470.77, DOC GIV $1627.38.

It is interesting to note that the GV's chief competition, the Global Express, could not have been certified at the Atlanta Aircraft Certification Office (ACO) where the GV was certified. The GV was required (by Atlanta) to have an automatic fuel heating system operated by the FADEC (so that fuel priority would go to the engines) and an automatic descent mode (if you are above 40,000 ft. and the cabin altitude exceeds 8,000 feet, the autothrottles come to idle, the jet turns 90 dgrees left, dives at MMO/VMO to 15,000 feet, levels, then slows to 250 knots and waits for you to wake up). The GEX has neither an automatic fuel heating system nor an automatic descent mode.

I think Deere's GV is on the market for the same reason they got rid of Scott, not performance, but politics.

Fly Safe,

GV







.

 

[501261]

I heard a rumor that Deere needed to fly into SDL regularly and you can't take GV in there. Probably nothing to the rumor, but you can't go into SDL in a V (wingspan).

 

[GVFlyer]

I heard a rumor that Deere needed to fly into SDL regularly and you can't take GV in there. Probably nothing to the rumor, but you can't go into SDL in a V (wingspan). [/B]

You're right, both Scottsdale and Santa Monica are Airport Design Category II airports. They are designed and built to accomodate an aircrraft with a wingspan up to but not including 79 feet.

Scottsdale won't budge, the airport manager would like to get GV's into his facility, but the current political situation won't allow it.

I did go into Santa Monica for my previous employer for a once in a lifetime event that demanded it. The airport manger was pretty cool. I called him and told him I needed to land at Santa Monica and why. He said to come on in, but he would have to write me a letter telling me not to do it again and that I would have to write him a letter back telling him that I wouldn't.

GV

 

[FL510GV]

The list goes on...

Hey you forgot the HUD, EVS (Ehanced Vision System), and the flap/stab computer (no more mechanical linkage), steer-by-wire, IRS enhanced anti-skid brakes, etc etc....

also, the Cabin Pressure control system works so well, that in about 1000hrs in the GV, I have NEVER touched it!!! (Except for QFE ops) It is totally automatic (sets cabin based off of FMS data) and there is a semi-automatic mode (the OLD automatic mode) and a manual mode.

The hydraulic system is very similar to the G-IV, but has the appropriate upgrades... the Left side runs everything, the right does flight controls and there is a mechanical connect (PTU) that pressurizes the Left system by using the Right system, there is an electric pump (AUX) pump that pressurizes portions of the left system (stdby rudder, brakes, steering, gear doors on the ground), main entrance door etc and is "armed" during ground ops to come on automatically if the brakes are applied and there is no other hydrualic pressure. Complete failure (no fluid loss) of either system results in only the loss of the on-side Thrust Reverser.

Oh... the electrical system has a Break Power Transfer system, where any non-failure AC electrical power transfer is automatically picked up without the old, "clunk clunk" of the power being interrupted. For example, when the engines are started and the generator comes on-line, taking over from the APU gen, the exchange is totally transparent with no electrical hiccup... pretty sweet, especially for the FMS/INMARSAT/SATCOM etc that don't like even momentary power interrupts.

And, GVFlyer wasn't being totally honest about the RE (really expensive)-220 APU... it is guaranteed to start at 39,000 and "may" start up to 43,000 ;-)

 

[fokkerjet]

It still flies like a truck

Ever try starting the APU at 390? I lost an IDG over the Pacific one evening and made two attempts at a start before giving up. Even Gulfstream wasn't surprised that the APU failed to start.

 

[banned username 2]

It still flies like a truck

Ever try starting the APU at 390? I lost an IDG over the Pacific one evening and made two attempts at a start before giving up. Even Gulfstream wasn't surprised that the APU failed to start.

Hehehehe.... I think GVFlyer is a paid Gulfstream salesman "hyperster"...

...as Andy Rooney would say it is nice to hear "The Rest of the Story!"

 

[Hopeless_in_GA]

It still flies like a truck

Ever try starting the APU at 390? I lost an IDG over the Pacific one evening and made two attempts at a start before giving up. Even Gulfstream wasn't surprised that the APU failed to start.

Ehhh...

You've got time in an old 440 and you think the G-V flies like a truck?

 

[FL510GV]

G-Lemon vs G-V

You must be flying the G-Lemon not the G-V. Just curious, what serial number? I got the APU to start at 410 on the second attempt... and you've got it all wrong - the C-141B flies like a truck

Fly safe!

 

[fokkerjet]

Now don't be mess'n with my Convair , besides it was a 580 so she was a turbine powered gravel truck

As for Gulfstreams, at $40 m per (at least when people wanted them) it shouldn't fly like a truck, it should fly like a fine sports car. I've flown 7 different GV's, from 501 up to the low 600's, the latter being the most reliable, but they all have problems. My favorite issue comes after sitting over a period of time; just how many BS alerts can one have on power up??????? On my last extended trip, on power up I had a blue CAS "L-R FQSC CH FAIL" (which leaves you with amber dashes or no quanity readout on ALL your fuel quanity gauges.) To restore, pull/reset all four circuit breakers on the REER labled L-R FUEL QUANITY AIR and L-R FUEL QUANITY GND. The other opition is to shutdown the aircraft and reboot.

Now Gulfstream's are nice airplanes, don't get me wrong, but they aren't what people make them out to be. Sure Gulfstream has made improvements on the design over the last 30 years
but what we are really flying is a modified GI and GII, not the latest and greatest.

 

[Hopeless_in_GA]

I dunno…

Of all the jets I’ve flown the Gulfstream is by far, hands down the best bizjet out there. All airframes will have a quirk or two and yes there are lemons. There is a G-IV non-SP mod at SAV that engineering has nicknamed “Opus” after the cartoon penguin. Why a penguin? It’s a flightless bird.

Although I’ve never piloted a V, I have J/S on one about five or six times and all the crews have had nothing but the highest of praise for the jet.

I’m wondering if maybe you’re just biased?

Maybe you’re a Falcon man at heart… understood if that’s the case.

The G is an awesome jet, a real performer and show stopper at times. The only real complaint I have is more a pet peeve than anything else.
It’s just so big and this sometimes causes us trouble when our charters want to go into some place like Hilton Head, Boca Raton, Scottsdale or some of the closer in airports serving larger cities.

As far as BS alerts on power up, both the III and the IV all had the same characteristic, heck from what I can remember the DA-50 had a similar quirk, apply power to that baby and the chiclets pad lit up like a Christmas tree momentarily.

 

[Muddauber]

Re: G-Lemon vs G-V

You must be flying the G-Lemon not the G-V. Just curious, what serial number? I got the APU to start at 410 on the second attempt... and you've got it all wrong - the C-141B flies like a truck

Fly safe!

No, it's the 737 that flies like a truck - the GV flies like a Porsche!

 

[GEXDriver]

GV truck?

Our company has a GIV and it is heavy on the controls, but it's lighter than our Global Express. When the CEO decided we needed a long range airplane we flew the GV and the GEX. The pilots that got to fly them liked the GV better. The GV is much lighter on the controls than the GIV. I think it's this way, the GV was made to be flown, the GEX was made to be flown by the autopilot.

The Global is a nightmare when you first power it up. It's like booting a computer. You have to let it go through all it's built in tests before you touch anything. If you don't leave it alone until it's done, you will have to take it back to a cold aircraft and start over.

We ended up with the GEX because our company owns some of the companies that are suppliers for the GEX and Bombardier was giving us some heat.

 

[fokkerjet]

GEXDriver.

You based out of BDL by chance?

 

[GEXDriver]

Yes, and our long range Global won't make it from Tokyo to BDL without stopping for fuel.

 

[empenage]

Our Global has the same problems. If you touch anything before it powers up and goes through it's tests you have to reboot it. The GIV I flew for years was a early serial number and all the quirks were worked out of it. It was a good ship. The Global will be too but like all new aircraft it will take time. The real problem is with Bombardier. Support is terrible right now. Like all new aircraft there is not enough trained people to work on the dam thing. I still like crossing at .87 and FL410 and 430 and landing with a 98 Kt Ref speed. I remember back when Segrums parked both of their GV's up at HPN because of hydraulic problems. Any new ship has bugs. It will take time. But Bombardier? I cant find a excuse for them. I'd rather deal with Gulfstream right now!

My 2 Cents.

 

[fokkerjet]

At least with the Global, you have an excuse...........it was designed from scratch , I don't think our friends from Savannah can make that claim.............yet

GEXDriver. You have a sweet airplane , I walked through it a couple of months ago. All kiding aside, it's much nicer than any GV I've seen to date.

Bottom line is that makers of corporate aircraft just basically throw stuff in their aircraft so they can claim they have all the best in bells and whisles, not worrying how well the "stuff" works together. No aircraft should produce all the faults that these two aircraft seem to get just because it has "booted" itself out of order or because I've moved a switch. These aircraft should be smarter then that and they should "boot" themselves in a logical order and know that when I shut an engine down on the ground, I don't need to know that the oil pressure is low, plus a half dozen other alerts..........these are 40+ million dollar machines. My "other" toy was designed in the 60's, then redesigned and updated in the early 80's and finally shrunk in the 90's and all the automation works very well together, plus it flies like a modern aircraft should, light and nimble on the controls, a real pleasure to hand fly. Blah, blah, blah...............

GEXDriver, tell Johnny, Mike and Art hello for me.

 

[GEXDriver]

I'd still rather be flying the GV, but it's not PC to say that around here. I'm sure you understand.

 

[GVFlyer]

Hehehehe.... I think GVFlyer is a paid Gulfstream salesman "hyperster"...

That is , of course, nonsense.

I just believe in the aircraft. They are good, honest, safe, reliable, jets that haven't let me down in the 18 years I've been flying them.

It doesn't pitch up when it stalls or have stability problems on take-off, you can fly it with a complete hydraulic failure, it has safety features not available on it's competitors, and no one is sueing the manufacturer because of excessive engine failures(Bombardier).

It's engines are not prone to failure and it doesn't have an autopilot system that will kill your passengers, nor is Gulfstream being tried in criminal court for having such an autopilot (Dassault).

If a T/R inadvertently deploys, there is no way that you can cause the affected engine to produce enough thrust to cause loss of control and the death of 96 people(Fokker).

...as Andy Rooney would say it is nice to hear "The Rest of the Story!"

I believe that's Paul Harvey...

 

[LA Confidential]

I dunno…

Of all the jets I’ve flown the Gulfstream is by far, hands down the best bizjet out there. All airframes will have a quirk or two and yes there are lemons. There is a G-IV non-SP mod at SAV that engineering has nicknamed “Opus” after the cartoon penguin. Why a penguin? It’s a flightless bird.

Although I’ve never piloted a V, I have J/S on one about five or six times and all the crews have had nothing but the highest of praise for the jet.

I’m wondering if maybe you’re just biased?

Maybe you’re a Falcon man at heart… understood if that’s the case.

The G is an awesome jet, a real performer and show stopper at times. The only real complaint I have is more a pet peeve than anything else.
It’s just so big and this sometimes causes us trouble when our charters want to go into some place like Hilton Head, Boca Raton, Scottsdale or some of the closer in airports serving larger cities.

As far as BS alerts on power up, both the III and the IV all had the same characteristic, heck from what I can remember the DA-50 had a similar quirk, apply power to that baby and the chiclets pad lit up like a Christmas tree momentarily.

Hopeless I thought you said you were going to lay low for a while?
Olin said to get your butt back to work!
Oh yea you better check the schedule sheet real good cuz your gonna be pissed!