Help our counterparts in ATC

[DJRobbioRobbio]

Well... it was illegal for the NYC subway workers to strike as well. But they still did it even after a federal judge ordered them back onto the job. What're they going to do? Throw ALL of you in jail???

Here's the kicker, I don't think any president, or anybody in the government now has the testicular, or ovarian fortitude to pull of what Reagan did back in 81...Even if it's illegal for gov't workers to go on strike....

That, and the controllers nowadays know what happened in the past...They're not willing to risk it.

 

[smellthejeta]

Here's the kicker, I don't think any president, or anybody in the government now has the testicular, or ovarian fortitude to pull of what Reagan did back in 81...Even if it's illegal for gov't workers to go on strike....

That, and the controllers nowadays know what happened in the past...They're not willing to risk it.

DJ, the difference this time around is that there is nobody to strike. Whatever offer Marion throws on the table will pay-protect the senior guys at the expensive of the new (or not yet hired) guys. Just like in any hard-sell contract negotiation, the senior guys will save themselves no matter what the cost.

Here's the rub: There's very new hires at the facilities right NOW. If the contract is settled today, there will be nobody to strike in protest... they'll just drop out of the academy, out of the pool, or whatever. What the FAA forgets is that it takes a minimum of two years to train an enroute controller. What happens when the senior guys retire, and all that is left is trainees? That's the jam the FAA will be in.

IOW, the FAA doesn't have anybody over a barrel, except themselves.

 

[Hypoxik]

Good Luck

Sometimes it is great to have a pleasant controller on the other end after a crappy flight.

 

[gabbyzoel]

DJ, the difference this time around is that there is nobody to strike. Whatever offer Marion throws on the table will pay-protect the senior guys at the expensive of the new (or not yet hired) guys. Just like in any hard-sell contract negotiation, the senior guys will save themselves no matter what the cost.

Here's the rub: There's very new hires at the facilities right NOW. If the contract is settled today, there will be nobody to strike in protest... they'll just drop out of the academy, out of the pool, or whatever. What the FAA forgets is that it takes a minimum of two years to train an enroute controller. What happens when the senior guys retire, and all that is left is trainees? That's the jam the FAA will be in.

IOW, the FAA doesn't have anybody over a barrel, except themselves.

The senior guys aren't pay protected under the imposed contract. They loose insentive pays and locality pay as well. And as soon as the FAA imposes this contract, they plan on reclassifying each area to different pay scales. Unlike the airlines, the senior guys aren't selling out the newhires to keep their pay. The FAA is imposing this pay structure. The controllers can't vote on this. NATCA is trying like crazy to maintain the pay structure for all the controllers, new hires included. To say the senior guys are selling out the new hires to save their pay is an unfair and false claim.
The kicker here is...The controllers have no say right now as to their fate. The only help is us calling congress to force the FAA back to the table.

 

[DLconnection]

The senior guys aren't pay protected under the imposed contract. They loose insentive pays and locality pay as well. And as soon as the FAA imposes this contract, they plan on reclassifying each area to different pay scales. Unlike the airlines, the senior guys aren't selling out the newhires to keep their pay. The FAA is imposing this pay structure. The controllers can't vote on this. NATCA is trying like crazy to maintain the pay structure for all the controllers, new hires included. To say the senior guys are selling out the new hires to save their pay is an unfair and false claim.
The kicker here is...The controllers have no say right now as to their fate. The only help is us calling congress to force the FAA back to the table.

Close. The "senior" guys/those already CPCs will be frozen under their current paybands. They will not receive a paycut. However, you are correct in that the FAA wants to delete a lot of the incentives like CIC pay. I disagree with you about the deletion of locality pay. If they cut that you will lose most of your controllers in the expensive areas of the west coast and in the northeast. There was rumor to this, but very unlikely that it will happen.

I don't believe that the "senior" guys are selling out the newbies either. What a newhire makes means nothing to an experienced controller as long as they don't take a pay cut. Marion has clearly stated that she is not cutting the pay for the current controllers (meaning those fully checked out). Instead she wants to FREEZE their pay at its current rate. The kicker about this is that there are a ton of controllers right now that are eligible for retirement. Some of them are hanging on to make the most money they can before they leave so that their retirement will be better. If the money will not improve..... look to see a surge of mass retirements after this contract is imposed.

Something else will occur because of the mass retirements. You will have to slowdown the training process for newhires because you now must allocate your instructor/training resources to work the stations vacated by retirees. I see chaos happening. Look at ZLA. They are so short on CPCs that it takes a year to get into D-side school. You are lucky if you get checked out in 3 years there.

This new contract will suck, but hopefully this new bill makes it to the floor and forces the FAA to actually negotiate a fair contract for the future controllers. Something else to remember is that this contract will be renegotiated in 5 years and hopelly under a new and improved administration.

 

[rediesmi]

Close.

This new contract will suck, but hopefully this new bill makes it to the floor and forces the FAA to actually negotiate a fair contract for the future controllers. Something else to remember is that this contract will be renegotiated in 5 years and hopelly under a new and improved administration.

It's my understanding that the imposed work rules are not a contract, not sure how future negotiations would go. Why would the FAA agree to talks when they can simply institute any rules they want? Hopefully they will work something out before the mass retirements happen, but it won't happen without pressure from congress

 

[DLconnection]

It's my understanding that the imposed work rules are not a contract, not sure how future negotiations would go. Why would the FAA agree to talks when they can simply institute any rules they want? Hopefully they will work something out before the mass retirements happen, but it won't happen without pressure from congress

The imposed rules is actually an imposed contract. The current contract between the FAA and Natca became ammendable this past summer. The problem that NATCA is having right now is that there is a loophole in the current contract dealing with how a new contract will be determined.

First off, the FAA is claiming that they are short on money. Marion has made it VERY clear that she wants to run the FAA like a business. The proposal from the FAA is evidence of this. They want to bring the pay down to that of similar government positions.

The loophole is that when it comes to the negotiation of a new contract, if the FAA and Natca can not agree on the terms of the agreement, the FAA can declare and IMPASS which they just have. The contract is then passed onto congress where they act is sort of a judge if you will. If Congress cannot make a decision for either side, the contract will then go to arbitration where FAA will be able to impose their last best offer onto NATCA.
Whats this basically means is that the FAA can sit at the table, as they have for the past few months, with their arms cross and not agree to anything and still get everything that they want. Natca is powerless basically. NATCA has been able to call Marion and everyone else on their BS. John Carr (president of Natca) is awesome. He has made the FAA look foolish infront of the public, and the senate. Still.... this impass has been declared and this contract might still actually be imposed.

Thats why this new bill submitted by Sen. Obama is so important. It will force the FAA to negotiate a fair contract in "good faith", closing the loophole

 

[DJRobbioRobbio]

DJ, the difference this time around is that there is nobody to strike. Whatever offer Marion throws on the table will pay-protect the senior guys at the expensive of the new (or not yet hired) guys. Just like in any hard-sell contract negotiation, the senior guys will save themselves no matter what the cost.

Here's the rub: There's very new hires at the facilities right NOW. If the contract is settled today, there will be nobody to strike in protest... they'll just drop out of the academy, out of the pool, or whatever. What the FAA forgets is that it takes a minimum of two years to train an enroute controller. What happens when the senior guys retire, and all that is left is trainees? That's the jam the FAA will be in.

IOW, the FAA doesn't have anybody over a barrel, except themselves.

You gotta love the way how the federal gov't conducts business. They constantly paint themselves into a corner, and then flip out when it's all about to go loose.

 

[Night_Flight]

Say again? I was on the land line.

No, pilots need to say: "Say again? I was on the air line." (Dumb I know)

 

[gabbyzoel]

The FAA wants to freeze contollers pay for 5 years which includes no cost of living raises for 5 years that other FAA employees currently receive. So it is a pay cut. Controller in charge pay will be gone as well as instructor pay.
Don't believe anything Marion Blakley says. And don't forget about Russ Chew who is the head of the ATO. The American Airlines guys should remember him. He is also behind a lot of this labor action as well. One thing to be sure of is if the FAA, our government, gets away with this imposed contract, ALPA and every other Union in this country will suffer a huge set back. The 1980 firing was a huge blow to organized labor in this country, one we still have yet to recover from.
Now that the FAA has declared an impass, the last best offer goes into effect June 5th regardless of how the controllers feel unless Congress takes some sort of action. The bill would be great for the future but Congress needs to act now.