Help our counterparts in ATC

[Hold West]

If Congress cannot make a decision for either side, the contract will then go to arbitration where FAA will be able to impose their last best offer onto NATCA.

....

Thats why this new bill submitted by Sen. Obama is so important. It will force the FAA to negotiate a fair contract in "good faith", closing the loophole

No, if Congress does not act, the FAA then implements its "last best offer". No arbitration happens. That's the intent of the Obama bill, to send it to binding arbitration rather than allowing to invoke their version at will. We WANT binding arbitration, that's what we are pushing for in Congress.

 

[Hold West]

No, pilots need to say: "Say again? I was on the air line." (Dumb I know)

I was probably on the land line coordinating YOUR request for direct routing. NO problem, "Unable direct anywhere".

 

[Hold West]

DJ, the difference this time around is that there is nobody to strike. Whatever offer Marion throws on the table will pay-protect the senior guys at the expensive of the new (or not yet hired) guys. Just like in any hard-sell contract negotiation, the senior guys will save themselves no matter what the cost.

This is, well, how do I say it, COMPLETELY WRONG. One of the contract provisions we are at impassse over is the imposition of a "B" scale for new hires. Read Marion's diatribes, she says over and over that we refuse to agree to that. In fact, let me quote from her April 21 letter:

"We never came close to an agreement for three primary reasons. First, the union has rejected every one of our proposals for meaningful reduction in new hire pay bands, even though the agency's proposal establishes a competitive pay scale under which the maximum base pay for new hire controllers at out highest level facilities is more than the maximum base pay of a GS-14."

The underline is in the orignal letter, read it here.

Next, the nontract the FAA wants to impose eliminates all protections for anyone's pay. The FAA can upgrade or downgrade at will. The nontract includes a provision that will allow it it to balkanize facilities into little chunks, each of which will be paid far less than the whole. No one's pay is protected.

We "senior guys" have just as much to lose. In fact, under both the FAA's and NATCA's last offers, I'm essentially screwed. 22 months to retirement, thank God.

 

[samfu_1]

Don't you just love how the "WalMart" culture in America has everybody in love with getting anything they want at the lowest price regardless of the consequences? Let me quote from the CEO of WalMart,
"On March 17, 1992, the President of the United States presented our founder, Sam Walton, with the Medal of Freedom. It was one of the proudest days in his life and in the life of our Company. Accepting the award, Mr. Sam said: "We'll lower the cost of living for everyone, not just in America, but we'll give the world an opportunity to see what it's like to save and do better." Sam Walton saw then what we're making a reality today at Wal-Mart. And to borrow just a few more of his words from that moving day: "We think we’ve just begun."
-not to mention giving the mentality that anything can come cheaper, like labor. They are proud for contributing to our race to the bottom mentality.

 

[smellthejeta]

This is, well, how do I say it, COMPLETELY WRONG. One of the contract provisions we are at impassse over is the imposition of a "B" scale for new hires. Read Marion's diatribes, she says over and over that we refuse to agree to that. In fact, let me quote from her April 21 letter:

"We never came close to an agreement for three primary reasons. First, the union has rejected every one of our proposals for meaningful reduction in new hire pay bands, even though the agency's proposal establishes a competitive pay scale under which the maximum base pay for new hire controllers at out highest level facilities is more than the maximum base pay of a GS-14."

The underline is in the orignal letter, read it here.

Next, the nontract the FAA wants to impose eliminates all protections for anyone's pay. The FAA can upgrade or downgrade at will. The nontract includes a provision that will allow it it to balkanize facilities into little chunks, each of which will be paid far less than the whole. No one's pay is protected.

We "senior guys" have just as much to lose. In fact, under both the FAA's and NATCA's last offers, I'm essentially screwed. 22 months to retirement, thank God.

I stand corrected. I thought there was enough bones in there to keep you guys from walking out the door enmasse. I figured Marion was smart enough to get you guys to agree to anything that would screw the new hires, especially considering that almost all of you will be hitting the big 25 in the next year or two.

If she wants to ruin the job/ATC system, that's fine with me. My current employer pays me pretty dang well considering the job and is footing the bill for me to get a Masters.

 

[superrav]

I know a controller in MEM..long story short. He and I got into a pretty nasty conversation because he proceded to tell me pilots are stupid and that controllers are responsible for everyones safety...I told him their is equal responsibility but he didnt want to hear it. anyways, he was a friend before that conversation. He went into ATC because he couldnt get on with a 121.

 

[Hold West]

I know a controller in MEM..long story short. He and I got into a pretty nasty conversation because he proceded to tell me pilots are stupid and that controllers are responsible for everyones safety...I told him their is equal responsibility but he didnt want to hear it. anyways, he was a friend before that conversation. He went into ATC because he couldnt get on with a 121.

I actually cringe a bit when I hear some of the union lines about how we get you safely home, etc. Safety is a chain, every link needs to be up to full strength. Yes, we have an important link, but every link is critical.

That's why I try to be reasonable on frequency, I've been kept out of trouble by alert pilots on frequency just as I've kept pilots out of trouble. It's inherent in a controller's nature to be somewhat arrogant, and arrogance has been known to surface in my demeanor from time to time, but I try to keep it in check.

If the nontract is imposed, thousands won't die - the system will still chug along. What will happen is an erosion of the level of safety, as experience is lost - and the results of that are quite unpredictable. Remember Uberlingen! I think there will be a considerable loss of efficiency as well, but that will be hard to quantify. Maybe when summer '07 rolls around we'll see the effects.

 

[Hold West]

I stand corrected. I thought there was enough bones in there to keep you guys from walking out the door enmasse. I figured Marion was smart enough to get you guys to agree to anything that would screw the new hires, especially considering that almost all of you will be hitting the big 25 in the next year or two.

If she wants to ruin the job/ATC system, that's fine with me. My current employer pays me pretty dang well considering the job and is footing the bill for me to get a Masters.

That's one thing I'm glad for, that most folks trying to get in the door have degrees and options. The FAA will soon figure out that a lot of you will exercise those options and go elsewhere.

The major difference between the FAA and NATCA proposals right now for me personally is that under NATCA's proposal my pay is frozen where it is. Under the FAA's I stand to take at least a 4% base pay cut and probably 8%. Either way, I will do better in the end by retiring sooner and taking the OPM annual cost of living increases to my retirement pay than sticking around for nada.

 

[smellthejeta]

I got into this because supposedly with a $3,000 investment, I was supposed to be making $100k on my 30th b-day. Okay, there's a little more to it than that (both the financials and the reasons I got into this career) but it's simple enough. Show me a pilot who can make that kind of money with that little investment. I already tried the military route, and I would be a military pilot if I could pass a USAF physical. Won't happen.

Will thousands die? I agree with Hold West on this one. No. However, quantifiable or not, the efficiency of the system will drop like a friggin rock. Those that flew after the PATCO strike say that the system was a nightmare. It won't be any better this time around.

I like the job. I like the environment. I like the government pension. However, I refuse to work for somebody who is trying to fire me at every chance she gets, while making my work conditions miserable, all for ******************** pay.