Help our counterparts in ATC

[Hold West]

Looks like the race to the bottom is starting to make its way to the other side of the radio. It's a dang shame.

It really is. Reading this board for the last few weeks has really opened my eyes to what's going on out there in the industry, and it's not a pretty sight. We're all in this together.

 

[kiteflyer]

Controller pay has always followed Major Airline pilot pay. The FAA knows this, that's why they are trying to cram this contract down their throats. Also, they would love to Privatize ATC. Basically they know that no coorporation will ever sign on to hire the controllers if they are paid too much. Also, the FAA is trying to drive the ATC system into the ground, so that the only way to fix it will be to allow sub contractors into the system, (privitization through the back door) If you think privitization is a good idea, ask anyone who flies in Canada, Europe, or Australia. How would you like to pay 5$ for evey ILS approach you flew while getting your instrument rating. How bout 50$ in GPS fee's to be able to fly your Cirrus?

Call the toll free number, e-mail your Congrassmen, do something. We need to do everything we can to help them out. ALPA could learn a thing or to from NATCA on how to defend a contract.

 

[rediesmi]

I posted this somewhere else yesterday but since this has some good replies might as well just

Bump

 

[FlyBunny]

If you dont know much about this the FAA is basically asking congress to void the controllers contracts, much like has been happening on our side for some time. The FAA just walked away from the table and is now seeking to simply force the new contract in.

The FAA wants to impose their new rates and hiring plans, which would according to a union somewhat stronger than alpo, would lead to massive retirements and start an A and B scale wages system.

While some of you are probably jaded about flying and think controllers are overpaid please lets try to help them what little bit we can.

Go to http://www.fairfaa.com/ and fire off a letter to your member of congress.

Thanks.

Counterparts...hhhhmmmmm...but they're not pilots?

I do understand what you mean...I have bit of a time and am disecting your use of the word 'counterpart'.

You want to support them, but how come there's not support for NWA mechanics?

We can fly without ATC, but can't fly without mechanics!

Bunny

 

[Soverytired]

Do you have any idea what they have to do to approach that level of pay? Starting with working 6 days a week? Living in some of the highest cost of living areas in the country, working the busiest most complex traffic in the world?

I didn't think you did.

Uh, most Euro-weenie country's have privatized ATC. Their controllers are considered moderately skilled techinical workers, at best, and are paid way way way WAY less than their US counterparts.

Feel unsafe flying in the EU? No? Nor should you. Pay has nothing to do with either safety or quality when it comes to ATC.

 

[Soverytired]

That's right. I said it. Whoop-dee-diddly-do-dee!

And who's holding a gun on anyone? You care to elaborate, or is that just BS? The only gun being held is by the FAA. Their policies will allow the system to deteriorate, even worse that it already is.

Personally I could have just as valid a point by saying "airline unions are BS, it's a public utility, they shouldn't be holding a gun to the traveling public's head".

But I don't, because I understand that morale and attracting the most highly qualified people are what keeps us safe. Management gets the blame all around, if you ask me.

GOVERNMENT UNIONS, my friend, GOVERNMENT UNIONS. When an airline goes on strike, a private corporation is threatened . . . they'll either come to an equitable solution or go under. There is significant inherent pressure for both sides to bargin equitably.

As for "the flying public" . . . any airline that goes under will be replaced w/in weeks by surplus capacity. Whoop-dee-diddly-do-dee.

Not so GOVERNEMENT UNIONS. They can rape the US taxpayer all day long. But hey, we're only borrowing money from the Chinese that your grandkids will have to pay off for the rest of their lives.

Ever heard of a teacher strike losing? No? Well that's because teachers know damn well they can force the local taxpayer to borrow infinte amounts of money. Same with govt. unions. Notable exceptions: ATC circa 30 years ago; NYC transit strike circa 1 year ago.

 

[pilotmyf]

Sorry, I vote no. Government unions are BS anyway. Nothing like holding a gun to the head of the US taxpayer, no?

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[pilotmyf]

When is the last time ATC folks came to our aid in contract disputes. And what is this "counterpart" stuff. Would they consider us their counterparts.

In my humble opinion, let them deal with their own problems.

 

[Hold West]

When is the last time ATC folks came to our aid in contract disputes. And what is this "counterpart" stuff. Would they consider us their counterparts.

In my humble opinion, let them deal with their own problems.

Well, one of the last things I wrote to my congressman about was H.R. 4552 by Representatives Oberstar and LoBiondo, that would prevent the Transportation Department from changing the rules to allow foreign interests to control U.S. airlines.

Before that was funding for Safe Flight 21, which is communications and weather upgrades to support the helicopter operators in Gulf of Mexico.

Both issues came to me out of the Transportation Trades Division of AFL-CIO. I'm happy to support any of my brothers and sisters in aviation that ask.

Want support in your contract dispute? Ask. I'll write or call whoever.

And I do consider you my counterpart. We both bear large responsibilities in aviation. You can stick to your "Us vs. them" mentalilty if you want, I've had a much nicer career by being a little more relaxed and open.

 

[Hold West]

When an airline goes on strike, a private corporation is threatened . . . they'll either come to an equitable solution or go under. There is significant inherent pressure for both sides to bargin equitably.

As for "the flying public" . . . any airline that goes under will be replaced w/in weeks by surplus capacity. Whoop-dee-diddly-do-dee.

So I guess the plans of hundreds of thousands of travelers that are disrupted, the jobs that are lost, the familes and lives that are shattered, the damage to other local firms that support an airline, etc. are just "Whoop-dee-diddly-do-dee" to you. I'm glad we have such socially concious people on the board.

Apparently President Clinton felt like I do when it comes to such things, I seem to remember him ordering everyone back to work at AAL a few years ago.

Sigh. I have to go feed kittens.... much more rewarding than this.