Hawker to Hawaii

[Stryker]

They have never said anything, but I am sure they put us in our own little slow ass area. Its never kept us from our requested altittude, we are defanatly the slowest thing out there. I know a pilot who ferried a Starship from Monterey to Australia that is nuts, bring on the bladder tanks, there 1st stop was in Hawaii

 

[G100driver]

Fun. Thanks for the info.

Nice to see that guys are doing it correctly. The only ones that I have ever spoken with about this are the fools trying force a trip.
Cheers.

 

[KSUPILOT]

Thanks, guys! Did not think I would cause such a riot over this. We have a Hawker 800xp that we have crosed the NAT with. Now I have been picking the brain of the captain of the airplane and he said he would not do it. Now that I know that it can be done I guess I have to go try it and be an idiot and a rebel!

Haooy flying and leave no foot prints. And oh by the way if you depressurize in a hawker it reall does not get too cold it you open the flt deck heat. actually gets too damn hot! Learned from experience.

 

[thatpilotguy]

What is the durations of the O2 if you have the extra O2 bottle installed?

And how many pax and bags can you get away with carrying?

Anyone done it in an 800XP with the winglets yet? I would love to see the time to climb and fuel remaining numbers on that.

 

[HawkerF/O]

Also, how were you planning to keep your passengers from freezing to death at FL240 after the depressurization?

Hawkers have a Flight Deck Heat Valve that will keep things plenty warm at 240, 340, or even 410. Grabs raw bleed air off the Rh engine, then just filters it and dumps is directly into the cabin. Serves as secondary pressurization as well.

 

[Lead Sled]

Hawkers have a Flight Deck Heat Valve that will keep things plenty warm at 240, 240, or even 410. Grabs raw bleed air off the Rh engine, then just filters it and dumps is directly into the cabin. Serves as secondary pressurization as well.

G100...
You know, just like Emergency Pressurization on the G100. It will "toast your posties"

'Sled

 

[Lead Sled]

We use custom data provided by a company - Aeronautical Data Systems. They'll work up custom long-range fuel and oxygen procedures based upon your actual equipment and capacities. It's good stuff and worth the expense.

A Hawker to HI? Huevos, hombre; that takes huevos.

'Sled

 

[HawkerF/O]

G100...
You know, just like Emergency Pressurization on the G100. It will "toast your posties"

'Sled

The nice thing about the Hawker is you can control the amount of heat coming in, it is not just on or off. It's is controlled by a 3 position spring loaded rocker switch. 1st position is closed, 2nd position holds what you have selected, and the 3rd position (spring loaded) you have to hold the switch there until the valve opens to your desired level then let the switch go and it defaults to position #2. If it gets too hot, go to off for a few seconds and the valve will close a little or a lot, depending on how long you have the switch in the off position. It's about a 12 second valve either on or off, but you can control it and that makes a trip like this doable

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

I have been picking the brain of the captain of the airplane and he said he would not do it.

This should be quite simple. Many not-so-great pilots like to sit around and theorize about all this cr@p just because they really don't know what they're talking about. Just like G100 says. It's simple math and perfomance. If your captain wants to turn down that trip, just ask him to show you why, in the performance books or the regs. My only last comment, don't go with a wet footprint.

Ace

 

[FracCapt]

We have the optional Big o2 tanks and WE launch out of Monterey, No Bay area delays and the fuel fast. They send us right up to altitude .70 the whole way.
15000, ft for the loss of press alt

Below is a performance plan run by Jeppesen for an 800XP. It shows an average of 49kts of headwind, climbing straight to 380, then stepping to 400 when able, and cruising at M.70. 4 pax. Departing SFO, 120lb fuel burn startup to takeoff. Landing with 1400lbs. Not what I call a good reserve for flying 2100 miles overwater.

PLAN XXXX KSFO TO PHNL 80XP M70/F IFR 08/23/05
NONSTOP COMPUTED 0256Z FOR ETD 1300Z PROGS 2218NWS NXXXXX LBS

FUEL TIME DIST ARRIVE TAKEOFF LAND AV PLD OPNLWT
DEST PHNL 008481 06/06 2100 1906Z 027180 018699 000800 016500
RESV 000000 00/00
ALTN 000000 00/00 0000 Z
HOLD 000000 00/00
REQD 008481 06/06
TAXI 000120
XTRA 001399 01/12
TOTL 010000 07/18
CLEARANCE



KSFO..NORMM..BEBOP..36N30..32N40..26N50..CLUTS MAGGI3 PHNL

WIND M049 MXSH 2/36N30
TAS 407 FL 380/32N40 400


Now....just for kicks....lets see the return for the same time and situation.

PLAN XXXX PHNL TO KSFO 80XP M70/F IFR 08/23/05
NONSTOP COMPUTED 0305Z FOR ETD 1300Z PROGS 2218NWS NXXXXX LBS

FUEL TIME DIST ARRIVE TAKEOFF LAND AV PLD OPNLWT
DEST KSFO 007146 05/00 2101 1800Z 027180 020034 000800 016500
RESV 000000 00/00
ALTN 000000 00/00 0000 Z
HOLD 000000 00/00
REQD 007146 05/00
TAXI 000120
XTRA 002734 02/13
TOTL 010000 07/12
CLEARANCE



PHNL MKK4 CLUTS..26N50..31N40..35N30..KSFO

WIND P047 MXSH 3/35N30
TAS 403 FL 390

Hmmm....landing with 2700lbs going eastbound with an average 47kt tailwind...and you say that you can do it going westbound with up to a 65kt headwind? Ok.....whatever you say...

 

[KSUPILOT]

what would it be if you did .68 going out there. I know the stick shaker is going off the g4 that should have been doing the trip!

 

[satpak77]

clearly

with this much "discussion" over this topic, one should shy away from taking a Hawker to Hawaii

kinda like in cruise flight, "if you are asking if you will have enough fuel when you land, you prob need to just land and get some now, and be done with it"

 

[Lead Sled]

Back when I was flying Lears, I attended recurrent in Tucson with a crew that flew a 36 to the mainland once a year. They would schedule maintenance while they were at FlightSafety. The captain talked about how they would usually get the low-fuel lights on approach; but, of course, east bound was no problem.

I never read anything about them in any of the magazines or saw anything on TV so evidently they continued to pull it off.

Unless the boss has the $$$ to get an airplane that can honestly handle the flight, his best option is a nice comfy first-class seat on some cattle car.

'Sled

 

[KSUPILOT]

If it was this much of a pinch ( depending on your skills and balls) why would Raytheon publish this. That is like saying you an take a king air across the nat tracks bgr-eggw! Can't wait to do it in our XP.

 

[gern_blanston]

If it was this much of a pinch ... why would Raytheon publish this.

Uhh, to sell airplanes?
The pilot's worst enemy: The salesman.

 

[Dumbledore]

We have a Hawker 800xp that we have crosed the NAT with.

Not a big deal really. Options out the wazoo there. The leg between SFO/OAK and HI is the longest overwater leg you can fly anywhere in the WORLD that has no landing alternate other than destination or origin. There's no place on the ENTIRE PLANET where a "wet footprint" matters more!

Now that I know that it can be done I guess I have to go try it and be an idiot and a rebel!

Nah. How's about trying it in an airplane that was built for the job. A Hawker isn't one of them - XP or not, winglets or not.

You have to ask yourself just one question:
Do you really want to be sweating the fuel for SIX hours?

 

[Dumbledore]

Come to think of it though, you can do it handily in a 1000. Go get yourself one of those.

 

[G100driver]

My only last comment, don't go with a wet footprint.

Ace

Excellent advice!!!!!

 

[Stryker]

your right I am lying about the whole thing, why dont you call universal and have them run it fro you since you cant seem to flight plan and calculate your own fuel burns

 

[Stryker]

Below is a performance plan run by Jeppesen for an 800XP. It shows an average of 49kts of headwind, climbing straight to 380, then stepping to 400 when able, and cruising at M.70. 4 pax. Departing SFO, 120lb fuel burn startup to takeoff. Landing with 1400lbs. Not what I call a good reserve for flying 2100 miles overwater.

PLAN XXXX KSFO TO PHNL 80XP M70/F IFR 08/23/05
NONSTOP COMPUTED 0256Z FOR ETD 1300Z PROGS 2218NWS NXXXXX LBS

FUEL TIME DIST ARRIVE TAKEOFF LAND AV PLD OPNLWT
DEST PHNL 008481 06/06 2100 1906Z 027180 018699 000800 016500
RESV 000000 00/00
ALTN 000000 00/00 0000 Z
HOLD 000000 00/00
REQD 008481 06/06
TAXI 000120
XTRA 001399 01/12
TOTL 010000 07/18
CLEARANCE



KSFO..NORMM..BEBOP..36N30..32N40..26N50..CLUTS MAGGI3 PHNL

WIND M049 MXSH 2/36N30
TAS 407 FL 380/32N40 400


Now....just for kicks....lets see the return for the same time and situation.

PLAN XXXX PHNL TO KSFO 80XP M70/F IFR 08/23/05
NONSTOP COMPUTED 0305Z FOR ETD 1300Z PROGS 2218NWS NXXXXX LBS

FUEL TIME DIST ARRIVE TAKEOFF LAND AV PLD OPNLWT
DEST KSFO 007146 05/00 2101 1800Z 027180 020034 000800 016500
RESV 000000 00/00
ALTN 000000 00/00 0000 Z
HOLD 000000 00/00
REQD 007146 05/00
TAXI 000120
XTRA 002734 02/13
TOTL 010000 07/12
CLEARANCE



PHNL MKK4 CLUTS..26N50..31N40..35N30..KSFO

WIND P047 MXSH 3/35N30
TAS 403 FL 390

Hmmm....landing with 2700lbs going eastbound with an average 47kt tailwind...and you say that you can do it going westbound with up to a 65kt headwind? Ok.....whatever you say...

I have seen it, why would I make that up, to try and talk someone in to making a bad decision. That is stupid and not what this web sight is for. shouldnt you be on some frac websight complaning about your wages