Hawaiian

[HA25]

To clarify, are you more for the sustainability of GO, than the expansion of local carriers, who will hire the local kids who have been patiently waiting for a local airline pilot position?

Respectfully,
slatsnfive

I'm trying to understand why it's somehow a right for a "local" to get a local pilot job just because you are in Hawaii? This only seems to apply for the 49th and 50th state for some reason. I just don't get it...


Any other airline hires from all over the United States and people regularly relocate for jobs.. they hire the best qualified and quality candidates they can. Just because someone lives in Dallas, doesn't mean they're entitled to a job at Southwest or American... How is Hawaii any different? People can pay their dues, fly for various airlines and build experience all over the US then land a job with Hawaiian or anyone else for that matter... this is how aviation has been since the beginning, right?

 

[slatsnfive]

I'm trying to understand why it's somehow a right for a "local" to get a local pilot job just because you are in Hawaii? This only seems to apply for the 49th and 50th state for some reason. I just don't get it...


Any other airline hires from all over the United States and people regularly relocate for jobs.. they hire the best qualified and quality candidates they can. Just because someone lives in Dallas, doesn't mean they're entitled to a job at Southwest or American... How is Hawaii any different? People can pay their dues, fly for various airlines and build experience all over the US then land a job with Hawaiian or anyone else for that matter... this is how aviation has been since the beginning, right?

You are absolutely correct, well stated.

Keep in mind, nowhere did I say it is a "right" for local kids in Hawaii to be hired in Hawaii first, and is most likely why "you don't get it." I merely said that there are many local kids that would love the opportunity to fly locally.

I know many who are at Hawaiian today living their dream, and also many at Aloha prior to 2008. They waited patiently, and we're eventually hired, in which I am very proud of them.

Respectfully,
slatsnfive

 

[Jim]

Slatsnfive,
I care about how Hawaiian is doing and what is best for Hawaiian. Hawaiian will soon be competing against your local carrier that is expanding with it's own turboprop subsidiary. It is not in our interest to help or encourage them. GO is just enough of a presence to keep a mainland airline from eyeing interisland. That helps us. Even our CEO has said this about GO. That's the bottom line, everything else is just mental masturbation.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

I'm trying to understand why it's somehow a right for a "local" to get a local pilot job just because you are in Hawaii? This only seems to apply for the 49th and 50th state for some reason. I just don't get it...


Any other airline hires from all over the United States and people regularly relocate for jobs.. they hire the best qualified and quality candidates they can. Just because someone lives in Dallas, doesn't mean they're entitled to a job at Southwest or American... How is Hawaii any different? People can pay their dues, fly for various airlines and build experience all over the US then land a job with Hawaiian or anyone else for that matter... this is how aviation has been since the beginning, right?

Maybe it's because living in the 49th and 50th states is unique. I know at AS, we want to hire loyal pilots, and part of that loyalty stems from being a "local boy/girl." It seems, whenever we hire, we hire mostly pilots from the PNW. If we want to stop the churn at the bottom of the lists in ANC and LAX, we have to hire pilots from there or who are willing to commute/relocate to those bases.

From Alaska's point of view and I'm sure Hawaiian's, it's just easier to hire a familiar pilot who has experience living in their respective namesake states.

 

[808pilot]

^ bingo

 

[slatsnfive]

Slatsnfive,
I care about how Hawaiian is doing and what is best for Hawaiian. Hawaiian will soon be competing against your local carrier that is expanding with it's own turboprop subsidiary. It is not in our interest to help or encourage them. GO is just enough of a presence to keep a mainland airline from eyeing interisland. That helps us. Even our CEO has said this about GO. That's the bottom line, everything else is just mental masturbation.

Well stated, all good. And the last sentence, now THAT'S funny.

Take care,
slatsnfive

 

[slatsnfive]

Maybe it's because living in the 49th and 50th states is unique. I know at AS, we want to hire loyal pilots, and part of that loyalty stems from being a "local boy/girl." It seems, whenever we hire, we hire mostly pilots from the PNW. If we want to stop the churn at the bottom of the lists in ANC and LAX, we have to hire pilots from there or who are willing to commute/relocate to those bases.

From Alaska's point of view and I'm sure Hawaiian's, it's just easier to hire a familiar pilot who has experience living in their respective namesake states.

Thank you. What you mentioned here is the simple fact I was merely attempting to point out with my statement.

Take care,
slatsnfive

 

[igneousy2]

I think Alaska and Hawaiian like "local" pilots because they are least likely to up and leave. Living in Hawaii or Alaska is not like living in most other places in the lower-48 and people that haven't lived in Alaska/Hawaii often, don't last very long.

 

[slatsnfive]

I think Alaska and Hawaiian like "local" pilots because they are least likely to up and leave. Living in Hawaii or Alaska is not like living in most other places in the lower-48 and people that haven't lived in Alaska/Hawaii often, don't last very long.

Thank you. That was the point I was trying to make. A few people in this thread should ready your statement.

Take care,
slatsnfive

 

[HA25]

I think Alaska and Hawaiian like "local" pilots because they are least likely to up and leave. Living in Hawaii or Alaska is not like living in most other places in the lower-48 and people that haven't lived in Alaska/Hawaii often, don't last very long.

so what you are saying is commuting is not allowed nor welcome at said airlines then? How do you explain the dozens that do it then?

And how is this any different than the new hire who lives in Idaho at Delta getting JFK as his base? Really..

Sounds more like someone is trying to justify a preference that really should not exist in the first place.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

so what you are saying is commuting is not allowed nor welcome at said airlines then? How do you explain the dozens that do it then?

Nowhere has anyone said that commuting is "not allowed nor welcome at said airlines." Pilots who live in base are more desirable. That is to say, pilots who don't live in base are less desirable. You don't have to like it, but that's the way it is. I have heard from multiple management types that AS actively seeks out applicants who want to live in ANC, SoCal and the PNW. I'm sure a similar conversation happens at HA.

And how is this any different than the new hire who lives in Idaho at Delta getting JFK as his base? Really..

You really can't see the difference? The new hire Delta pilot has a fighting chance at getting a short, one-leg commute to SLC or SEA. If said pilot chooses to live in Idaho, pickings are slim for easy commutes. A pilot who doesn't live in base (HNL or ANC) will have a long commute from the lower 48. I'm willing to bet that most pilots who work for HA or AS, during their interview, either showed willingness to move to ANC or HNL or had a darn good explanation for how their commute would go if they planned to stay on the mainland.

Sounds more like someone is trying to justify a preference that really should not exist in the first place.

igneousy2, said "I think Alaska and Hawaiian like "local" pilots because they are least likely to up and leave...people that haven't lived in Alaska/Hawaii often, don't last very long." Most HR departments are looking for loyal pilots, who will bend over backwards for the company and won't leave in a few years if the going gets rough (I realize this type of pilot is few and far between).

 

[Dan Roman]

Hawaiian has been hiring a lot for the last few years. They have clearly shown absolutely no bias against non local pilots. That said, being from Hawaii is certainly an additional qualification that helps and would add to the pilots desirability for al the reasons stated above. It's a plus and it should be, but we have hired from across the spectrum. I can say for sure Hawaiian does not frown upon commuters, but for many reasons, a pilot with strong local ties brings something extra to the job, but again, that's not to say non local pilots don't. Everyone they hire contributes in their own way and one is certainly not better than the other for Hawaiian. The reality is, we are going to hire several hundred pilots in the next few years, from all over.

 

[HA25]

The reality is, we are going to hire several hundred pilots in the next few years, from all over.

God I hope you're right Dan! I was looking at the retirement roster (based on age 65), and it's not very encouraging in terms of movement due to retirements! The pilots here are unusually young for such an old airline...

 

[BentOver]

Took a look at retirements a few months ago.... Was something like 60 mandatory over the next five years. (roughly 10%) Doesn't include any early outs or Medical retirements.... It starts to increase slightly after that... To maybe 20 year.... I'm guessing in 10 years we'll see maybe 170-200 retirements? If they do hire another 200 pilots over the next few years.... Anyone on the list now should be near the 60% line within 10 years...IE: Very senior FO/very junior Captain

 

[HA25]

Took a look at retirements a few months ago.... Was something like 60 mandatory over the next five years. (roughly 10%) Doesn't include any early outs or Medical retirements.... It starts to increase slightly after that... To maybe 20 year.... I'm guessing in 10 years we'll see maybe 170-200 retirements? If they do hire another 200 pilots over the next few years.... Anyone on the list now should be near the 60% line within 10 years...IE: Very senior FO/very junior Captain

not bad actually for someone hired in their early 30's and even late 20's like in my class.... I'm a bit more "senior" shall we say... Timing is everything, my friend who was hired exactly a year ago is now 100 numbers senior to me... he'll likely see the left seat in 5 years at the rate we're moving (knocking on wood)..

I'd heard we're scaling back next years number from 100, to only 30 however which has me a bit worried...

 

[Dan Roman]

I would take that one with a grain of salt. They are still getting 5 A330's next year and I believe that last "reduction" in the A330 bid was simply to correct for the fact that thy are planning more 767 flying next year.

 

[Jim]

I'd heard we're scaling back next years number from 100, to only 30 however which has me a bit worried...

The number I've been told in the last week by 2 management pilots is 80 to 100 new pilots next year. 5 new A-330s, retirements and the new rest rules means we need them. Plus I've been told by these same management pilots that we are only half way through our planned expansion and we should be at 1000 pilots in the next 3 1/2 to 4 years (from 650 now).

 

[BentOver]

I've heard the same type of numbers (800-1000 pilots) in X amount of years.... I will add just for "accuracy sake" HAL is not quite up to 650 yet... getting closer, but still closer to 600... Maybe 650 alludes to what we will have by the end of this hiring cycle?


Either way, with such a comparitively small number of a/c and pilots.. A tiny tweak in deliveries/flights or routing, does seem to have a more instant effect on staffing compared to much larger companies... But with the quarterly reports and increase in service to destinations already served, it appears HAl is on a solid track thus far. And hopefully will be in the distant future!:beer:

 

[Jim]

I meant by the end of vacancy bid 12-02 which had us going to 651 pilots. I just saw 12-03 which reduced that to 636 but said it was a temporary reduction as they realign where the pilots are going (i.e less interisland, more 767 Captains, etc.) with the positions being added back next spring.

 

[AeroDMB]

"B" told us 605 pilots on the list as of yesterday during our interviews. Plus 31 vacancies to fill as of the latest bid. Although not sure where they stand with offers out there and those awaiting phase III as of this week, like myself. Anyone know if they are running phase I and II next week? I heard things will be slowing down due to training backlog and holidays. Those who interviewed this week were told no more hiring this year but no news is good news for remainder of year. Good times ahead I hope !