Has ALPA tried to bring AA back?

[B6Driver]

Some TWA pilots live in a constant state of denial about the truth.

After 9/11 the TWA operation cost AMR a BILLION DOLLARS every year off the bottom line.

One billion dollars in losses every year directly from that abortion.

TWA is the worst thing that ever happened to AA.

I can only say I wish we'd found out if they would have survived on their own instead of them helping drive this company to the brink.>>

Try and use your own advise, "no crying while posting"

What a real tool.
So let me get this straight, it's the TWA pilots that can't seem to let go of the past? Riiiiighhhht.

 

[Zipperhead]

Some TWA pilots live in a constant state of denial about the truth.

After 9/11 the TWA operation cost AMR a BILLION DOLLARS every year off the bottom line.

One billion dollars in losses every year directly from that abortion.

TWA is the worst thing that ever happened to AA.

I can only say I wish we'd found out if they would have survived on their own instead of them helping drive this company to the brink.>>

Hey Nitrogen,,

Are you an accountant for AMR? A billion dollars a year huh??? I HIGHLY doubt that.. Lets see some proof.....

 

[seefive]

Pylut.........I'm not one to argue on message boards or call people ignorant which you seem to need to do. I realize it is an emotional issue for you. It is however my opinion that TWA was lucky to be taken over by AA. It didn't work out well for many pilots and employees but many are still lucky to be employed at AA. The alternative for TWA, in my opinion would have been bankruptcy and breakup of the company. Complete loss of jobs for all. We'll obviously never know.
Best of luck with your career.

 

[pylut]

Pylut.........I'm not one to argue on message boards or call people ignorant which you seem to need to do. I realize it is an emotional issue for you.

Wrong, it is not emotional. It is right vs wrong, good vs evil. little to no emotion involved on my part.

It is however my opinion that TWA was lucky to be taken over by AA

your opinion perhaps, but wrong again.

The alternative for TWA, in my opinion would have been bankruptcy and breakup of the company

We've already seen what your opinion is worth, but hmmm let see...
bankruptcy and disappear just like DAL,UAL,NWA,CAL, USAIR and all those other fly by night bankrupt carriers? is that what your guessing?

Best of luck to you as well, however if truth be told it is best not to rely on luck to get you where you want to be.

 

[seefive]

I see you have a continual need to try and diminish others. Sad.
It bleeds emotion on your part. Best of luck on improving your people skills.

.....and I don't rely on luck, I create my own.

 

[100 c.i.]

If AA hadn't merged with TWA, wouldn't all the TWA pilots been on the street with a dissolved company?

A lot us would be in a better position to get hired at other airlines or corperate flying jobs without AA stamped on resumes. Besides AA is not out of the woods yet.

 

[ironspud]

TWA is the worst thing that ever happened to AA.

.>>

Actually - it's the other way around.

 

[pylut]

I see you have a continual need to try and diminish others. Sad.
It bleeds emotion on your part. Best of luck on improving your people skills.

.....and I don't rely on luck, I create my own.

Once again your opinion is categorically wrong. no need to attack and lash out like petulant child though. I am merely making observations and calling them as I see them.

Apparently you have hurt feelings and are reacting in this manner. So, I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your just pouting and not truly this ignorant.

Regarding luck, way to take a wise mans advice on that subject.....you're welcome.

 

[ironspud]

Once again your opinion is categorically wrong. no need to attack and lash out like petulant child though. I am merely making observations and calling them as I see them.

Apparently you have hurt feelings and are reacting in this manner. So, I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your just pouting and not truly this ignorant.

Regarding luck, way to take a wise mans advice on that subject.....you're welcome.

yer so smurt..smart.

 

[furloughfodder]

TWA is the worst thing that ever happened to AA.

I would argue it is the best thing that could have happened for the AA pilots.

There are over 2700 pilots on furlough from American right now. The VAST majority of them are TWA (due to the staple job).

If it wasn't for TWA, there would be 2700 AA pilots on the street.

Buying TWA and stapling all their pilots to the bottom of the list saved thousands of AA jobs.

 

[100 c.i.]

I would argue it is the best thing that could have happened for the AA pilots.

There are over 2700 pilots on furlough from American right now. The VAST majority of them are TWA (due to the staple job).

If it wasn't for TWA, there would be 2700 AA pilots on the street.

Buying TWA and stapling all their pilots to the bottom of the list saved thousands of AA jobs.

Amen, next tread please!

 

[pkober]

Some TWA pilots live in a constant state of denial about the truth.

After 9/11 the TWA operation cost AMR a BILLION DOLLARS every year off the bottom line.

One billion dollars in losses every year directly from that abortion.

TWA is the worst thing that ever happened to AA.

I can only say I wish we'd found out if they would have survived on their own instead of them helping drive this company to the brink.>>

I guess all the aa guys flying out of STL while TWA'ers are on the street was the worst thing that happened. If it sucks so bad take a leave of absense and work at Walmart. Don't forget the aa guys picking up open time while fellow APA'ers are on the street. Scab like behavior.

I hope it comes out that ALPA was working APA. That will help in a lawsuit.

I think most TWA pilots feel more anger towards ALPA than APA. I've always said APA did there job of protecting there pilots. ALPA didn't. Worthless is a liar. The way APA treated us after becoming a APA member is what sucks.

Enjoy STL while some furloughed TWA Captains and FO's scrape for every dime to support there family. Remember having a job sucks.

Nice can of worms.

 

[pipe]

I would argue it is the best thing that could have happened for the AA pilots.

There are over 2700 pilots on furlough from American right now. The VAST majority of them are TWA (due to the staple job).

If it wasn't for TWA, there would be 2700 AA pilots on the street.

Buying TWA and stapling all their pilots to the bottom of the list saved thousands of AA jobs.

Not to mention the F-100's were gone with or without TWA. Probably saved a native job or two to get 110 MD-80's overnight.

PIPE

 

[AAbyDefault]

Not to mention the F-100's were gone with or without TWA. Probably saved a native job or two to get 110 MD-80's overnight.

PIPE

Bingo! Replacement aircraft = saved native jobs!

Next topic!

 

[AA717driver]

seefive--To say that the acquisition of TWA saved "many" jobs is not quite correct. Fewer than one in ten TWA employees survived the integration and that number is diminishing daily.

Sure, pilots have recall rights but FA's have already begun to lose their recall rights due to the 5 year limit. A good deal? I think not.

Most rampers outside of STL were gone immediately. Many mechanics in STL and MCI remained. Many did not. With the downturn and cascading Ch.11's in the industry, it's a worse time to be a mechanic than a pilot in this business. Not a good deal.

Outside of STL, most agents were laid off. They can be recalled but with many having 30 years seniority or more, coming back to AA for a no-benefit, part-time position probably isn't a good deal.

As has been documented, 75% of the pilots at TWA ultimately got laid off. The last few rounds of furloughs cut people who, less than a year before had been flying as captain--some for over 3 years in the left seat. A $150,000 pay cut in 10 months is a little difficult to recover from. Not a good deal.

The TWA pilots have been told that "at least you'll have a good job to come back to". We'll see but as many in this industry have discovered, there are no guarantees.

So, please get your facts straight before telling people how good a deal they have--particularly if you aren't getting the same deal.TC

 

[AAflyer]

I would argue it is the best thing that could have happened for the AA pilots.

There are over 2700 pilots on furlough from American right now. The VAST majority of them are TWA (due to the staple job).

If it wasn't for TWA, there would be 2700 AA pilots on the street.

Buying TWA and stapling all their pilots to the bottom of the list saved thousands of AA jobs.

If all the pilots were stapled how did I fly with a TWA captain the other day?
It was a crap deal, but alteast be honest with ALL pilots being stapled, things like that tend to mislead others. You know, like all OZ pilots were stapled.

Lastly, I would say Carl Ichan was the worst thing that happened to TWA. He destroyed a magnificant airline, which left it in the state it was when aquired.

regards,

AA

Pkober, you would be surprised at the number of exTW guys picking up OT.
It is a lot larger than you would probably imagine.

 

[stlflyguy]

Well, at first glance one could say that only 60% of the TWA seniority list was stapled. Strangely enough, of the 1000 or so that were "integrated" into the list (and might I say at a less than noble BOTTOM UP instead of TOP DOWN) there are only 400 or so (less?) still on the property. All within five years. I'd say that the APA did their homework on that one. So of the 2301 pilots on the TWA list 18% are still on the AA property. Not bad for taking 188 aircraft at the date of the merger. And truthfully, I don't care how many TWA aircraft are still there now...those have been the responsibility of AMR since 4/10/2001.

Oh, and I would have taken an OZ integration any day of the week....but you AA guys said it was so heinous that you didn't even offer it. Why not? Was it too good?

stlflyguy

 

[furloughfodder]

If all the pilots were stapled how did I fly with a TWA captain the other day?
It was a crap deal, but alteast be honest with ALL pilots being stapled, things like that tend to mislead others. You know, like all OZ pilots were stapled.

Where did I say they were ALL stapled?

 

[STL717]

The purchase of TWA protected AA and many AA employees from hardship.


AA management removed a competitor from the industry. Too bad they didn't know how to use the opportunity in a profitable way. AA threw away a great opportunity.


"Two great airlines, one great future". Just lie, cheat and steal.


I don't see how AA's management is going to navigate the hard times ahead. The industry has changed and AA is unable to adapt.

 

[glasspilot1]

Post # 40

Where did I say they were ALL stapled?

In your post # 40.

 

[AAslag]

Furloughfodder must have mistyped. He did contradict himself in his post but I'm sure it was unintentional. The majority of the pilots were stapled and the rest of us were integrated at an 8 to 1 ratio beginning with the most senior pilot hired in 1965 losing 20 years by being feathered in at a 1985 seniority.

Then it was 8 AA for 1 TWA. I lost 12 years, my TWA 1988 seniority translated into AA year 2000.

 

[pkober]

If all the pilots were stapled how did I fly with a TWA captain the other day?
It was a crap deal, but alteast be honest with ALL pilots being stapled, things like that tend to mislead others. You know, like all OZ pilots were stapled.

Lastly, I would say Carl Ichan was the worst thing that happened to TWA. He destroyed a magnificant airline, which left it in the state it was when aquired.

regards,

AA

Pkober, you would be surprised at the number of exTW guys picking up OT.
It is a lot larger than you would probably imagine.

AA or TWA, it's still SCAB like behavior. Thanks for not being one of them.

 

[pkober]

The purchase of TWA protected AA and many AA employees from hardship.


AA management removed a competitor from the industry. Too bad they didn't know how to use the opportunity in a profitable way. AA threw away a great opportunity.


"Two great airlines, one great future". Just lie, cheat and steal.


I don't see how AA's management is going to navigate the hard times ahead. The industry has changed and AA is unable to adapt.

Hey remember when they handed out those bags with that saying. Pretty cool. I can still remember when Carty came to the STL hangar and was greeted like a hero. If we only know then what we know now. It least I got a cool Coke bottle opener out of that deal.

 

[glasspilot1]

Furloughfodder must have mistyped. He did contradict himself in his post but I'm sure it was unintentional. The majority of the pilots were stapled and the rest of us were integrated at an 8 to 1 ratio beginning with the most senior pilot hired in 1965 losing 20 years by being feathered in at a 1985 seniority.

Then it was 8 AA for 1 TWA. I lost 12 years, my TWA 1988 seniority translated into AA year 2000.

Ya, I thought it was a mis-type. But he did ask "where did I say that" so I told him!

I'm a March '88 TWA hire and I lost 11 years. Basically the same system seniority as the natives I'm flying with in STL.

 

[seefive]

In my opinion, TWA would have folded had AA not purchased them. Everyone would have lost their job. My opinion only. With that premise, anyone at TWA that is still with AA is fortunate on some level. If they don't want the job, they can always look elsewhere.
Obviously the events after 9/11 were unforseen and horrible for many. The fact that there were furloughs of so many TWA pilots/employees still sucks.

By the way, grow up Pylut.

 

[pylut]

In my opinion, TWA would have folded had AA not purchased them. Everyone would have lost their job. My opinion only. With that premise, anyone at TWA that is still with AA is fortunate on some level. If they don't want the job, they can always look elsewhere.
Obviously the events after 9/11 were unforseen and horrible for many. The fact that there were furloughs of so many TWA pilots/employees still sucks.

By the way, grow up Pylut.

Well let's see....

We've already covered what your opinion is worth.

We've already covered this thrashing around like a bratty 7 year old.

As for your latest jab regarding growing up - I guess I could respond with something on your level which you would under stand like "I'm rubber your glue..." Hardly seems worth the effort however, so-

good "luck"

 

[seefive]

blah,blah,blah.......you're laughable!!

 

[pylut]

blah,blah,blah

Funny, that's exactly what all your posts have sounded like from the beginning. Actually if truth be told, this might be your most intelligent statement on this thread.

good luck

 

[furloughfodder]

In your post # 40.

I guess I better read my own posts better.

I guess I should have said "The VAST MAJORITY of TWA pilots were stapled, with the rest being integrated from the BOTTOM of the AA list."

 

[stlflyguy]

blah,blah,blah.......you're laughable!!

That's one of your posts that I can believe! Thanks for keeping it simple.

stlflyguy