HAL hiring

[bri5150]

I have decided to bet 1.95% of my salary and no raises for a few years on my opinion VX and HAL are getting together. There are many reasons I believe this, but the most recent was VX retweeting HAL tweets and the fact HAL came to VX hq to celebrate Lei Day. I will probably get berated with negativity, but whatever. When was HAL's 321 order announced?

 

[Dan Roman]

I'll play devil's advocate HAL.

a) Hawaiian could be integrated with SW pretty easily. Would it take time? Sure. Look at the acquisition of AirTran. And most likely the HA model of service would change. Staffing more FA's? You really think that would be a problem? Meals? You think that would be a deal breaker for a CEO? The goal for SW would be widebodies with ETOPS immediately. Asia...immediately. A platform for more widebodies with new destinations. It's a jumpstart HAL. Could SW do it alone? Sure. But why not get a turn key Ops for 700 million?

b) Yes, they would adjust the schedule. You think they couldn't change the Hawaiian business model (departure times) and not make money? SW is the PhD of changing schedules to make money. If it doesn't make money, they adapt and change it so it brings in money. I can guarantee you that. Coming Eastbound, how easy would it be for the widebody to land in LA, OAK, or LAS and a 737 to take them to OMA or MCI? Hint..we already have that setup. We (SW) provide the best system of feed in the industry. We operate 3,500 flights a day. Think more widebodies that are full....from 737 feed.

c) Here, I completely agree and you make my point for me. SW wouldn't be buying out a competitor (like AAI), but expanding into long haul, overwater operations. So it's less likely that DAL or AAL would interested. I agree. SW might be.

HAL, I respect your response and appreciate the time you took to post it. But you didn't make any points that wouldn't stop a CEO from making the purchase for the low price that it would take. They don't think like pilots, they look at opportunities for the value presented and then pull the trigger. I highly doubt it would be a disaster for SW if done.

Again, pure speculation on my part and it may never happen. But you have to keep your eyes wide open.

Red, dude, your not paying attention. Point one, acquire HA for 700 million? Can't happen, it's not for sale at that price. The current stock price has absolutely nothing to do with the price it would sell for should someone start bidding on it. Point 2, it's been made pretty obvious here that Hawaiian does not connect with SWA's 3500 flts a day. It's a hub in the middle of the pacific, the closest it comes to SWA is on the west coast, were the majority of the flights leave too early to get any feed from SWA and arrive too late to connect to any SWA flights. Finally, integration would be a nightmare, SWAPA would think it deserves more than it should (that's their job in a merger) and HALPA would not be very friendly, an Arbitrator most likely wouldn't be handing any widebody seats to SWA pilots and the result would be a black hole of civil unrest in the Pacific for SWA that would be a very unpleasant place for any "RealSWA" employee to set foot in.
Other than that your post is spot on! :beer:

 

[FlyinGuy]

2B would suffice for investors.

Schedule would change.

Hub would be moved to stateside eventually.

Arby would happen. HI and widebody fence for at least 5 yrs.

It probably won't happen, but you would be ignorant to plug your ears. We were worried a few years ago about a SWA takeover b/c we were cheep but it didn't happen.

Dan, we are not saying this because we want this to happen. We are saying it because we are learning how our CEO thinks.

 

[Dan Roman]

I actually think American has the highest chance of purchasing HAL-
They have almost $10B laying around in cash

And Hawaiian pilots have spoken-
They'd rather integrate with APA than SWAPA, and that fact alone will keep GK out of it I'm sure
:-/

A lot of people are unaware that Mark Dunkerley doesn't make a move without consulting Flight Info. Com!......Wave you seem to take that as an insult that SWA is on the bottom of the list for who any of us would want to be acquired by. That' s no reflection on SWA, you are very good at what you do, LCC domestic 737 flying. But merging with us to get Hawaii and International routes to Asia, Australia and the Pacific would just create a half ass wanna be legacy carrier that would be by far the weakest of the "big 4"

 

[Dan Roman]

2B would suffice for investors.

Schedule would change.

Hub would be moved to stateside eventually.

Arby would happen. HI and widebody fence for at least 5 yrs.

It probably won't happen, but you would be ignorant to plug your ears. We were worried a few years ago about a SWA takeover b/c we were cheep but it didn't happen.

2b is probably about right....that's a lot of money to spend and then totally disband the operation , changing the schedule, and no longer being "Hawaiian" means you have lost most of what you paid the 2 billion for and the International flying couldn't be moved to the Mainland.

 

[Dan Roman]

And no I'm not "plugging" my ears .....that's why I like to post so much on why it's not a likely scenario. It could happen, not with SWA but DAL or AA, although our Asia flying hardly gives AA much that fits their airline very well. We do make a little sense for DAL as we compliment their current Asia flying and they would dominate the Hawaii market and be way ahead of UAL, who would be a now distant 2nd place.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Instead of moved, I should have said expanded to.

If they want to get into long haul international, they have to buy it. HI is about all that is left. They should have bought ATA and launched from there.

Don't lose any sleep over this cuz I bet it does not happen. It's just good pilot talk. Go catch a wave!!!

 

[Dan Roman]

Instead of moved, I should have said expanded to.

If they want to get into long haul international, they have to buy it. HI is about all that is left. They should have bought ATA and launched from there.

Don't lose any sleep over this cuz I bet it does not happen. It's just good pilot talk. Go catch a wave!!!

:beer: agreed, personally I think there is way to much opportunity for SWA to grow in the Caribbean, Mexico, Canada and Central America for them to want to delve into a whole different type of flying and aircraft types.

 

[Dan Roman]

I will concede this though (don't tell Wave!) while things are good here at the moment and most likely will continue so, as we all know anything can happen. Believe it or not, there is a small faction trying to reshape the union into their particular vision. We have an attempted MEC recall going on. Will it succeed ? I don't think so. The current MEC isn't perfect, they never are. But a group that has a long history of having a very narrow focus and is not exactly being straight forward is trying to turn over the apple cart for some pretty silly reasons. Not saying it would happen but if they succeeded it could be a different ball game. We would be set back substantially in getting a new contract, the new leadership would be well behind and have to spend a year or more getting up to speed. Could this start a downward spiral, probably not, but it could leave us more vulnerable. We would be left with a very fractured pilot group. We would be weaker in a merger as at our size it's hard enough to get enough people involved in union work, this coup would really hurt that and leave us helpless in a merger. If the union added to that irrational dealings with management as advocated by one of its ringleaders who knows were it would end up 5 years down the road.

 

[waveflyer]

Red, dude, your not paying attention. Point one, acquire HA for 700 million? Can't happen, it's not for sale at that price. The current stock price has absolutely nothing to do with the price it would sell for should someone start bidding on it. Point 2, it's been made pretty obvious here that Hawaiian does not connect with SWA's 3500 flts a day. It's a hub in the middle of the pacific, the closest it comes to SWA is on the west coast, were the majority of the flights leave too early to get any feed from SWA and arrive too late to connect to any SWA flights. Finally, integration would be a nightmare, SWAPA would think it deserves more than it should (that's their job in a merger) and HALPA would not be very friendly, an Arbitrator most likely wouldn't be handing any widebody seats to SWA pilots and the result would be a black hole of civil unrest in the Pacific for SWA that would be a very unpleasant place for any "RealSWA" employee to set foot in.
Other than that your post is spot on! :beer:

These threats are beyond childish
I'd bid Hawaii just to see what you got

 

[jea]

I will concede this though (don't tell Wave!) while things are good here at the moment and most likely will continue so, as we all know anything can happen. Believe it or not, there is a small faction trying to reshape the union into their particular vision. We have an attempted MEC recall going on. Will it succeed ? I don't think so. The current MEC isn't perfect, they never are. But a group that has a long history of having a very narrow focus and is not exactly being straight forward is trying to turn over the apple cart for some pretty silly reasons. Not saying it would happen but if they succeeded it could be a different ball game. We would be set back substantially in getting a new contract, the new leadership would be well behind and have to spend a year or more getting up to speed. Could this start a downward spiral, probably not, but it could leave us more vulnerable. We would be left with a very fractured pilot group. We would be weaker in a merger as at our size it's hard enough to get enough people involved in union work, this coup would really hurt that and leave us helpless in a merger. If the union added to that irrational dealings with management as advocated by one of its ringleaders who knows were it would end up 5 years down the road.

This is a great point Dan, I wonder how many that are involved in the recall push think about this... I'm new but it seems the setback, just as we begin early negotiations, would cost the pilot group more in the long run than what appears to some to be fraudulent spending by the mec.

 

[Dan Roman]

Wave, really..."just to see what you got"? THAT's childish. I'm simply pointing out the reality that in Hawaii, if someone from the outside tries to conduct business the way SWA did with AirTran, they would find it a very unfriendly place. No threat, it just is what it is. It's an island, a lot of people know or are related to someone who works at Hawaiian Air. It's a very popular local business and has a lot of supporters. If SWA tried to come in here and go all warrior spirit on us they would create a lot of problems for themselves. No threat, just an observation. Just like an arbitrator isn't going to hand you a bunch of widebody seats. Again, not a threat, just a rational observation.

 

[Dan Roman]

Wave, I was expecting a rational post on the dangers of union vigilantism, not a threat about seeing what we got!

 

[Dan Roman]

This is a great point Dan, I wonder how many that are involved in the recall push think about this... I'm new but it seems the setback, just as we begin early negotiations, would cost the pilot group more in the long run than what appears to some to be fraudulent spending by the mec.

Well I can tell you from experience, there is a lot of personal items motivating this attempt at a recall that are not concerned about the whole group as much as a few individuals personal agenda.
They are a little too secretive for me, they would definitely fracture the unity of the pilot group and I'm not so sure they know how much work has to be done to run a union. My biggest fear is they would find out how much is involved once they got in there and simply not be able to execute (especially hard with a fractured pilot group) and they would leave us all hanging and vulnerable.
The allegations they have made are based on half truths and innuendo. They haven't been willing to spend the time to sit face to face and work out their differences, instead they have gone to full attack mode.

 

[Dan Roman]

This is a great point Dan, I wonder how many that are involved in the recall push think about this... I'm new but it seems the setback, just as we begin early negotiations, would cost the pilot group more in the long run than what appears to some to be fraudulent spending by the mec.

And your spot on here. Seems we have a window to get a good contract thanks to DAL raising the bar, that's who we need to catch back up to. If they can't get us a good contract then recall them, but right now it would just assure that we don't get a good contract anytime soon. You have to have unity to get a good contract. They would kill that and waste a lot of time.

 

[dicko]

Indeed Dan. You really do need to listen closely when a Southwest pilot speaks about this sort of thing.

Your turboprop is wholly owned is it not?
You don't think that'll put downward pressure on things?

The only thing worse, would be a letting a wholly owned fly the same equipment for lower rates. What sort of shortsighted flat earthers would let that happen ?

Yeah, yeah. I know ..... 'It's only for five years', 'it doesn't set a precedent', and 'it's just the tip'.

 

[Dan Roman]

Indeed Dan. You really do need to listen closely when a Southwest pilot speaks about this sort of thing.



The only thing worse, would be a letting a wholly owned fly the same equipment for lower rates. What sort of shortsighted flat earthers would let that happen ?

Yeah, yeah. I know ..... 'It's only for five years', 'it doesn't set a precedent', and 'it's just the tip'.

Does SWA still code share with Volaris?

 

[redflyer65]

No. We tightened down scope even more last time.

We can official codeshare with ONE named carrier, and it was Volaris (no others). SW backed out of the agreement after a couple of years and it's over.

I think Dicko might have been talking about the unlimited codesharing AirTran had with SkyWest. Just a guess.

 

[Jim]

And your spot on here. Seems we have a window to get a good contract thanks to DAL raising the bar, that's who we need to catch back up to. If they can't get us a good contract then recall them, but right now it would just assure that we don't get a good contract anytime soon. You have to have unity to get a good contract. They would kill that and waste a lot of time.

I don't agree with all the reason for the ongoing recall effort (I do not doubt their integrity) but I have always doubted if two maybe three of the current reps have the intestinal fortitude necessary to get us the contract we desire/deserve. They have always seemed to willing to compromise rather than stand their ground whenever there has been a disagreement with management. I saw this with the last contract MEC when they wimped out at the end. Don't get me wrong, we got significant contract improvements but we could have and should have done better. I want the most steadfast guys calling the shots and I'm not sure the current reps are the right people.

So I'm all for the recall. Better to hash this out now then be stuck later. If the majority think they are the right guys for the job, they will keep their positions.

 

[mdanno808]

And your spot on here. Seems we have a window to get a good contract thanks to DAL raising the bar, that's who we need to catch back up to. If they can't get us a good contract then recall them, but right now it would just assure that we don't get a good contract anytime soon. You have to have unity to get a good contract. They would kill that and waste a lot of time.

Are you high?!? Let them negotiate a crappy contract, then recall them? Talk about a waste of time considering the last contract was sent out for ratification how many years past the amendable date?

Why recall the MEC? How many mid contract LOAs have been signed? Now how many of them had any gains for the pilot group? Now how many benefited the company? The lounge the pilots spoke very adamantly against. The NEO agreement which netted us ZERO gains (not even any no cost items) while even the flight attendants negotiated themselves furlough protection & segment limits to protect interisland flying. Oh yeah, the premium instructor rates for 717 instructors which gave our nc chairman a huge leg up when he transitioned to fleet captain a mere few months after negotiating himself a pay raise. You mention dal. They just negotiated (mid contract) a rig increase to deal with far 117. What did we get? Buffers, & a secondary line assignment program helping the company to dump open time & manipulate reserve coverage. Am I missing anything else? Oh yeah, flica. We finally got flica 4 years after it was guaranteed in our contract, and 3 years after the flight attendants were using it. Are these the guys you want negotiating our next contract? Seriously? Not me. No agenda, other than trying to get the contract we deserve considering the position we're in.