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Had enough yet?

Hadenoughyet

New member
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Posts
1
Total Time
1000
Am I the only Flex guy who has had enough of this nonsense?

We are years into this DAC purchase fiasco and management still will not acknowledge that they lost the vote. It does not matter by how much, if even by 1 vote they still lost. Over and done with so now can we please move on as peoples lives and careers are on the line here...

If 2N wants to know why we voted in a Union all he has to do is look in the mirror. How many outright lies and intentional misinformation has been given freely by this management team? When will the Flex guys realize there is no way to work for this man without an ironclad contract? Its mind boggling and depressing at the same time.

Two different storefronts, what bonus?, that shady employment contract forced upon us at he last minute that's "not worth the paper its written on", our downhill spiral on benefits, bringing over all the Union haters from Options and putting them in our largest a/c under the Flex name, the outright slaughter of our honored seniority system.........do I really need to continue? Wake up guys, there is a new Sheriff in town and he does not like to play nice and is used to getting his way like a child. What more do we need to see?????

Maybe the Teamsters was not our 1st choice in representation but they were the only choice in representation. Kinda like the last Presidential election - either A or B with no option C....so with the few of many examples mentioned above how can anyone want to continue a career path with this company without representation? I certainly do not, I would take the Teamsters any day of the week and twice on Sunday rather than work for a selfish egomaniac without some type of checks and balances. I gave 2N the benefit of the doubt and he failed miserably. Its no wonder he has had labor issues with the Options guys for the past 10+ years. Options was after all his "baby" and yet they always have been the worst paid Fractional with the worst schedule and worst benefits. And that's not an attack on the Options guys, I respect you guys for getting together and trying to do something about your situation. Thats more than I can say for the Flex guys.

With the money this company has spent on lawyers fighting the outcome of a legitimate vote, they could have given everyone a nice raise and an increase in benefits across the board, but no as that would mean the King would have to admit maybe, just maybe, he was wrong...

So please any Flex guys that read this look in the mirror and ask yourself - Have you had enough yet?
 

doh

Jump seat shrink
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
Posts
4,017
Total Time
48 yrs
Speaking of RH, his last diatribe had this: Another unanswered question is why for the last 2 months of negotiations hasn’t one Flexjet pilot been in attendance?

He already knows the answer to that. They refuse to release our member of the negotiating team for the session unless they can charge us for his entire rotation. So, VF has a six day and the last two days are part of a negotiating session. Management says we have to pay for the entire six day rotation to have him released for those two days! RH is a lying pos...but most of you already know this.
 

Propilot77

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Posts
167
Total Time
None
Am I the only Flex guy who has had enough of this nonsense?

We are years into this DAC purchase fiasco and management still will not acknowledge that they lost the vote. It does not matter by how much, if even by 1 vote they still lost. Over and done with so now can we please move on as peoples lives and careers are on the line here...

If 2N wants to know why we voted in a Union all he has to do is look in the mirror. How many outright lies and intentional misinformation has been given freely by this management team? When will the Flex guys realize there is no way to work for this man without an ironclad contract? Its mind boggling and depressing at the same time.

Two different storefronts, what bonus?, that shady employment contract forced upon us at he last minute that's "not worth the paper its written on", our downhill spiral on benefits, bringing over all the Union haters from Options and putting them in our largest a/c under the Flex name, the outright slaughter of our honored seniority system.........do I really need to continue? Wake up guys, there is a new Sheriff in town and he does not like to play nice and is used to getting his way like a child. What more do we need to see?????

Maybe the Teamsters was not our 1st choice in representation but they were the only choice in representation. Kinda like the last Presidential election - either A or B with no option C....so with the few of many examples mentioned above how can anyone want to continue a career path with this company without representation? I certainly do not, I would take the Teamsters any day of the week and twice on Sunday rather than work for a selfish egomaniac without some type of checks and balances. I gave 2N the benefit of the doubt and he failed miserably. Its no wonder he has had labor issues with the Options guys for the past 10+ years. Options was after all his "baby" and yet they always have been the worst paid Fractional with the worst schedule and worst benefits. And that's not an attack on the Options guys, I respect you guys for getting together and trying to do something about your situation. Thats more than I can say for the Flex guys.

With the money this company has spent on lawyers fighting the outcome of a legitimate vote, they could have given everyone a nice raise and an increase in benefits across the board, but no as that would mean the King would have to admit maybe, just maybe, he was wrong...

So please any Flex guys that read this look in the mirror and ask yourself - Have you had enough yet?

Part of the reason is you have a selfish top half of the seniority list who couldn't careless about anyone but themselves! Always been that way here forever. I got mine pull the ladder up! The Flexjet pilots have always been a spineless jellyfish as a whole and that will never change!
 

Imissmypilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
536
Total Time
7500
Personally I hope KR keeps Handchuck around for as long as possible. Except for a handful of pilots, his "letters" and sold-out bull$hit are winning more pilots over to the Teamsters than ever before. I think for many pilots the brazen and disgusting co-opting of a colleagues death for the purposes of some weird management PR commercial was the last straw. It's only a matter of time before that idiot creates another unintentional win for the Teamsters. With each idiot move a few more see the light.

I personally think KR keeping RH was one of the Jedi mind tricks I see the union using in the world of busting the union busters. Kenn thinks it irritates the union so he keeps him. But the union wins everytime he opens his mouth.

KR thinks he's been out smarting the Teamsters when in reality I think the Teamsters are more in control then we give them credit for.

Other examples: you have RH, FW and all of these people claiming the union hated Red Label and tried to get rid of it. While I wish this were true, the fact is the Union fought hard to keep Red Label, the salary and benefits PROTECTED so when in future litigation the company is forced to make it 100% seniority based, the company can't take it away. They Jedi bended Ricci into a corner by setting a base much higher than it ever would have been.

Why does the company want to fight the ISL ? Look at the list and ask yourself why the company fears it so much? Is it possible it forces the protection of the majority of pilots based on expected career longevity to a disadvantage regarding Kenn's consistent goals to tee up more decertification efforts? Do you seriously think Kenn allows seniority jumping and overpaying for anything with any other goal in mind?

Or the SuperDave factor. Jedi mind bended the company into fighting for pbs to solve the dreaded seam clauses management has been abusing. If not for the union, it would have been gone years ago.

Look around. There are more examples. It's kinda funny. Kenn Ricci has been Ricci-ed. His union busting is being slyly busted.

I know it's a long road. I know it often times appears as though we are losing but if you take a step back and look at the big picture I think either by design or sheer luck, the union is inching closer and closer to having KR by the balls with a new contract. The last thing in the world we need to do now is risk 3 plus years of maneuvering to this point by running scared now.

If Kenn would have just dealt fairly with his pilots and customers years ago he would be currently swimming in cash. Instead he is hemorrhaging it on these silly fights thinking he can outlast the coffers of the 1108.

And that is the reason we really can't afford to lose them and the support of the National. We need them a lot more than they need us. But FW will have you think it's about dues. Another red herring.
 

jetwash

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 30, 2002
Posts
877
Total Time
23 yrs
They have been having this decertification card drive now for a few months. if they were going to get the numbers they needed they would have them by now. Every month that goes by the cards coming in will dry up. Eventually they will reach their peak which will fall short of their goal.

Time is working against them, and now that the Flex pilots are able to see the benefits of working with a contract not many will choose to go back to being at will employees waiting for a Friday email to change their schedule ( like the Flight Attendents ) or benefits.
 

doh

Jump seat shrink
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
Posts
4,017
Total Time
48 yrs
Do not make the mistake of underestimating them.
 

doh

Jump seat shrink
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
Posts
4,017
Total Time
48 yrs
30 min shutdowns suck. Who approved of such an

- - - Updated - - -

Assinined idea


From what I understand, if you need to clean, stock, etc. you tell them you need more time. If they say no, you walk away. The decision to do those things rest with them now, not us. It’s a system we are not used to, but they get to make the choice of a clean plane or a delay to clean the next day. Welcome to Flops renamed.
 

Bjtdrvr

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Posts
180
Total Time
10000
Yes. This has been the standard at FO ever since I can remember. I have had to clean the plane and duty off a bit later. They have just said ok. Again another example of how things that were never going to change at Flex have changed!!! ;)
 

Imissmypilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
536
Total Time
7500
30 min shutdowns suck. Who approved of such an

- - - Updated - - -

Assinined idea

Who "approved" it? Seriously?

Do you honestly think for one red hot minute this was on any level a Union idea or Union proposal? Do you honestly think, with a straight face and sober mind, the Union is just going to arbitrarily come up with or agree to contract issues that screw pilots?

No one "approved" it. Mangement asked for it and the arbritrator granted it. As with every other ****ty part of the contract.

There's a group of belly-achers of a certain fleet (legacy) claiming they are going to start a class action lawsuit against the union for everything they lost in the MCBA. I sincerely hope they do. Hell, I might even donate to it. Pm me and I'll consider it. It's worth a few bucks to have a ****ing judge explain to them just exactly how this all works. I can't wait to see the look on their faces when he throws them out of court for suing the wrong party and being too stupid to know it.

I sincerely hope you're just blowing off some undirected steam and not part of the Benedict Arnold brigade.
 

Bjtdrvr

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Posts
180
Total Time
10000
Again if that is what people are saying they have no clue. FO management has had this as their standard since way before the union. In fact almost all of what is in the CBA was from BEFORE. Exactly what management had set as the standard. In fact you had to be ready for duty at 3 am on day one and you didn't get ot unless you arrived back at your domicile AFTER 3am!!! That little gem was pre CBA.
 

jetwash

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 30, 2002
Posts
877
Total Time
23 yrs
30 min shutdowns suck. Who approved of such an

- - - Updated - - -

Assinined idea

Just ask for more time, that 30 minutes assumes no calls to MX or extra cleaning or if you are waiting for a hotel van. Just call in and say what time you left the FBO and the duty off time will be adjusted. If it is a min rest night your duty on time will also be adjusted. Never had a problem in over 18 years of getting extra post flight time added to my duty day.
 

shanes123

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Posts
969
Total Time
6000
We used to have a hour also many years ago. But as with everything KR slowly chips away your quality of life. However everyone is correct. Call and tell them u can’t do it and never had a argument about it YET!!!!!
 

jetmaster727

Old School
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Posts
111
Total Time
lots
It has taken me a long time to learn that no matter how much factual info you throw the non Union types about why we need this Union they just cannot see it. Used to have an instructor in the schoolhouse, call him Nixon, that was furloughed TWA. He was vehemently anti Union. But when the recal to AA came he jumped on it . I said , wow Nixon, the only reason you can do that is because of the Union. Answer: well it's different!
 

Propilot77

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Posts
167
Total Time
None
It has taken me a long time to learn that no matter how much factual info you throw the non Union types about why we need this Union they just cannot see it. Used to have an instructor in the schoolhouse, call him Nixon, that was furloughed TWA. He was vehemently anti Union. But when the recal to AA came he jumped on it . I said , wow Nixon, the only reason you can do that is because of the Union. Answer: well it's different!

Now that is some funny stuff right there....”different” hahahaha!
 

doh

Jump seat shrink
Joined
Aug 26, 2003
Posts
4,017
Total Time
48 yrs
It has taken me a long time to learn that no matter how much factual info you throw the non Union types about why we need this Union they just cannot see it. Used to have an instructor in the schoolhouse, call him Nixon, that was furloughed TWA. He was vehemently anti Union. But when the recal to AA came he jumped on it . I said , wow Nixon, the only reason you can do that is because of the Union. Answer: well it's different!

What was his name on here? He used to post a lot of BS...until he took that recall. Then he just shut right up, because his hypocrisy caught up with him. It was TWA something? What an a-hole!
 

jetmaster727

Old School
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Posts
111
Total Time
lots
What was his name on here? He used to post a lot of BS...until he took that recall. Then he just shut right up, because his hypocrisy caught up with him. It was TWA something? What an a-hole!

You r correct ! But the worst was having him for a check ride and having to be subjected to his anti Union BS. Had lots of "discussions" with him but usually backed off at some point due to his position. Came real close to telling him to F off. Of course I would have been ejected from the " family" .
Funny how the "family" lovers forget how the company ruled over us like we are servants for the non Union years. Three am call outs !! Training intimidation, sick call reminders, didn't answer ur phone in rest reminders, and God forbid if you called fatigued. No one did it.
I recently had a long time Flex guy ask me if he had to go over 14 because he thought he couldn't refuse. That's the Flex mindset.
 

Imissmypilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Posts
536
Total Time
7500
I have long been an advocate of our training protocol BUT NOT our training department.

Our company is simply too small to expect an in-house training department to be a good idea. The company could be sued out the wazoo if some of these antics got out. All I have to say is research the phone and wifi records of instructor's phones during training events (especially checkrides) and you'd be looking at a bankrupt DAC. Would you trust an instructor who's getting titty shots from his mistress during a checkride, forgets to adjust conditions, pilot fails? Happened. I have dozens more just as egregious examples. Management has long been aware too so don't expect much to be done about it.

Too often it is stacked with biased company yes men. I'm not saying this from personal experience but rather observational experience. I have always been smart enough to kiss ass and stay friendly. Friendly enough I can say I've heard first hand just exactly how bad it can be for a pro-union or unpopular pilot. The instructors at the schoolhouse are really no better than 6th grade girls when it comes to interpersonal conduct. Supposedly many of them are pro-union, and I used to believe that myself. But then you look at the past 3 years and follow the breadcrumbs and you'll see they were nothing more than double agents reporting back pilot positions to the company.

Look at the ones who got booted out years ago They're not willing to play the game. DAC has made that pre-condition of being the lenient or strong arm of management even worse. Look at the ones who stay/did stay forever or keep cycling back throughout the DAC term. Those are the ones you got to really watch out for... I wouldn't trust an instructor who's been a part of that place for the past 2 years with a wooden nickel, let alone my career. You gotta play the game or you'll be the next one cut down a notch during a TRB.

That's just one of the reasons for the Flexjet mindset JetMaster. It's years of self-preservation steeped into our bones.
 
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