HA - Latest System Bid

[BentOver]

Can't for the life of me figure out why more guys don't bid reserve??

Lose maybe 9 hrs of pay, but get to be channel surfing for 20-25 days a month depending on how you bid..... And in my case maybe lose a few hundred bucks...

The way our trips are made, being a junior line holder offers no QOL in terms of days off... It's basically either do 9-12 straight days of work... Or do 3 on 1-2 off for the month....

I got tired of getting 3-4 back-to-back 3 days....

Next contract needs to improve in this area.15-18 days off would be the norm, not the exception

 

[HA25]

Can't for the life of me figure out why more guys don't bid reserve??

because 12 days off sucks and now with the 330 being so low on pilots you get short called out near midnight... But I agree, 15-18 days off is what should be the center of gravity on a widebody not 9-12... (guys waiving days off to get a bidline)

 

[HAL]

But I agree, 15-18 days off is what should be the center of gravity on a widebody not 9-12

You and I have discussed this before, but for the others... Just remember the differences you get when you work for a small airline. We have far fewer trips to work with in order to get a good line. It's not like a huge mega-carrier where scheduling can manipulate the trips to get a difference of a few minutes here and there to make the schedule more comfortable. For us, it's really bidding in blocks of 5+ hours, with very little ability to lengthen or shorten a layover. Since so many of our destinations are single-flight airports, you can't juggle your schedule to leave whenever you want - you have to wait until the next flight. And that is driven by marketing, not by crew scheduling. Having 15 to 18 days off would be great - and it can be done by the senior guys bidding SYD or JFK or PEK etc. But after those trips are snapped up we're left with some very unproductive 3-day LAX, LAS, etc. Do we force the senior guys to pick up those trips too, to spread the wealth? Not a chance. Do we force the airline to change the departure times so the trips are more productive for us? Not unless you want all our passengers to head to another airline. Do you want the airline to pay us for 85 hours when we actually flew only 40? Not unless you want the airline to go bankrupt again. There are of course things we can work on during this contract cycle, including the usual suspects that help QOL.

When it comes down to it, every airline job is a bunch of tradeoffs. We get to know most of the people we fly with, work for an airline that is doing well, and enjoy the environment (and some of the destinations) we work in. The tradeoffs are a less-than-perfect schedule for more junior pilots and less flexibility in bidding.

HAL

 

[waveflyer]

I bet HAL, there are solutions within the union that aren't looked at so senior pilots keep their cushy schedules.
I know Hawaii brings complications
You have some good points, it's one of the reasons SWA is a good job- all the pilots fly all 650 airplanes-
I would just caution against the "not a chance" line above.
That kind of schedule fracturing within a union can severely hamper unity.

I'll ask your hypothetical a different way- do you really want a minority of your pilots having sweet schedules while the majority are on regional schedules?

15 days off isn't that much on wide body flying

 

[HA25]

The solution isn't changing anything with the airline schedule. The solution is trip rigs so my 3 day trip pays more than 11 hours.

 

[General Lee]

That's why the company is always complaining about sick leave being so high. They fail to realize that little things like allowing more schedule flexibility will decrease sick leave. Most of our managers, particularly those involved in scheduling, are absolutely clueless.

The solution isn't changing anything with the airline schedule. The solution is trip rigs so my 3 day trip pays more than 11 hours.

A min 5:15 per day would work with those 3 day trips. Starting Nov 1st at DL, every day of the trip (unless arrival back at base between 12 Midnight and 2am local) is credited 5:15. All 3 days worth 15:45, 4 days worth 21 hours, etc. That would help you guys, maybe one less 2 or 3 day trip at the end of the month.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HA25]

A min 5:15 per day would work with those 3 day trips. Starting Nov 1st at DL, every day of the trip (unless arrival back at base between 12 Midnight and 2am local) is credited 5:15. All 3 days worth 15:45, 4 days worth 21 hours, etc. That would help you guys, maybe one less 2 or 3 day trip at the end of the month.


Bye Bye---General Lee

that is the plan General.....

btw, does your rig pay the greater of? or an average of?

i.e. .. if you do a 3 day trip that has a 10 hours on day 1, hotel sit for 24 hours, then fly back for 8 hours.. do you get 18? or do you get the 18+ 5.15 = 23.15??

 

[General Lee]

that is the plan General.....

btw, does your rig pay the greater of? or an average of?

i.e. .. if you do a 3 day trip that has a 10 hours on day 1, hotel sit for 24 hours, then fly back for 8 hours.. do you get 18? or do you get the 18+ 5.15 = 23.15??

That is a good question. I believe it will be the average, a 4 day will be worth 21. Each day is worth at least 5:15, and the average will be 21. There are plenty of 4 day trips now that end early on day 4 worth 18 or 19 hours, so that will change that. All of the ATL to South America ER long trips (GRU, SCL, and EZE are worth a bit less than 20 hours), so those will be bumped up to 21, and those end with an allnighter back in ATL by 630am or so. Those have 35-37 hour layovers down there.

Maybe Bill Lumberg or NWAF16 will correct me.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mercyful Fate]

That is a good question. I believe it will be the average, a 4 day will be worth 21. Each day is worth at least 5:15, and the average will be 21. There are plenty of 4 day trips now that end early on day 4 worth 18 or 19 hours, so that will change that. All of the ATL to South America ER long trips (GRU, SCL, and EZE are worth a bit less than 20 hours), so those will be bumped up to 21, and those end with an allnighter back in ATL by 630am or so. Those have 35-37 hour layovers down there.

Maybe Bill Lumberg or NWAF16 will correct me.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Yea, ask a real pilot that can correct you

 

[General Lee]

that is the plan General.....

btw, does your rig pay the greater of? or an average of?

i.e. .. if you do a 3 day trip that has a 10 hours on day 1, hotel sit for 24 hours, then fly back for 8 hours.. do you get 18? or do you get the 18+ 5.15 = 23.15??

Those trips that I mentioned, to GRU/SCL/EZE, have 35-37 hours on the ground and I don't think they will add 5:15 to the total because of the new rule. It will average 21 hours minimum for a 4 day trip. That's an additional 2 hours of pay on one of those trips, or an extra 8 hours of pay per month if you do four of those, not bad. The 3 day Hawaii trips from LA with an allnighter attached on the end (arriving at 6am day 3) used to be worth normal block pay, maybe 11 or so hours. In the last contract it went to 13:30 min for a 3 day trip, so that was about a 2:30 raise. According to an LAX based pilot I know, that same trip would be worth 15:45 in November, and that's not good for that LAX base, since the scheduling computer doesn't like giving a lot of credit time for trips, and will either add those Hawaii flights onto 4 day trips that first go somewhere in the mainland (like LAX-MSP-SLC) the first day, and then onto Hawaii (SLC-LAX-OGG etc), or give that flying to another base (like ATL or NYC) and have that flying mixed into one of their trips. It might be bad for the LAX guys, because the extra credit is not something the airline wants to "give away."



Bye Bye---General Lee