HA - Latest System Bid

[sk00tar]

Delta is starting their new round of contract talks. Hal is already a cycle behind. Is parity for the last set of industry standard contracts or the what is being negotiated in 2015 by Delta.

If you were to speculate what are the top 3 items the Hawaiian pilot group wants to address in the next contract.

Thanks

 

[Jim]

Delta is starting their new round of contract talks. Hal is already a cycle behind. Is parity for the last set of industry standard contracts or the what is being negotiated in 2015 by Delta.

If you were to speculate what are the top 3 items the Hawaiian pilot group wants to address in the next contract.

Thanks

Whatever is in effect or will be in effect when we sign.

Top 3?
Pay, workrules and retirement..... We haven't even had openers yet and have to get our new union reps in place before anyone can narrow it down for you anymore than that.

 

[Microclimates]

1. SCOPE! a much tighter leash on ohana. not just a minimum block guarantee for HAL, but also a max block to ohana. ensuring that inter-island growth doesn't go to them only.

2. Pay (not just captain's pay rate, also FO rate-- our pay as a percentage of captains' pay is well below industry standard... )

3. soft time: a. minimum daily guarantee so that junior line holders don't have to give up days off just to get a line. b. training pay. c. vacation pay d. no proration bullsht

4. QOL: e.g. long call reserve (commuting policy is not realistic-- long call is),

 

[mdanno808]

For the guys who were here during the bankruptcy, Retirement is going to be number one. We have captains hired in 99-01 who's company contribution is 6-7%.

 

[Microclimates]

yes but they also have a defined benefits package to go with it.

 

[mdanno808]

Yes we do. So how much would it take in the db package to make up for a company contribution less than half of industry standard? Remember, those in the b plan getting less than 15% were the youngest & most junior with at most 5 years longevity when this plan was created, so we all have very little in our db fund. I can tell you my a fund payout is calculated at just over $600/month. I would gladly forfeit that minuscule amount to more than double my company contribution & receive what the new hires (and the rest of the industry) are getting.

 

[HA25]

HAL is a good friend, a wonderful instructor and a great captain by all accounts but I have to disagree with his view about our route structure being an obstacle to getting rigs.. I sit here and type this from ICN on a 5 day trip where if I had the Delta current rig, I'd be making another 4 hours pay.. Delta is staying at the same hotel, as is American, UPS, and foreign carriers.. we ALL do the same thing.

There are pocket bases at all of the major carriers with route structures much like ours.. I will also remind HAL that the secondary bidlines that the COMPANY wanted to keep and that the union finally revoked paid a pilot 75 hours of credit, for about 60 hours of flying.. 13-14 days off... Proof that they can afford it.

We don't need to go to the table with the white flag raised, talking about "what are you willing to give up" when we have nothing TO give up (maybe except industry leading per diem)... the fact remains, Hawaiian is a Legacy Airline, like Alaska, like Delta and like Amerian... those our our peers.. and those are the guys by which our CBA must be measured.

The tide has turned, the MEC recall that took place was a shot across the bow of defeatism and "we'll we can't afford to be like Delta"... those are the kinds of slogans that Mark D as programmed many of our pilots to believe, but thankfully most of us don't.

 

[fly4surf]

^^^like^^^

Think you are right and I am also starting to think it's going to be quite a fight for those increases.

 

[HA25]

Yes we do. So how much would it take in the db package to make up for a company contribution less than half of industry standard? Remember, those in the b plan getting less than 15% were the youngest & most junior with at most 5 years longevity when this plan was created, so we all have very little in our db fund. I can tell you my a fund payout is calculated at just over $600/month. I would gladly forfeit that minuscule amount to more than double my company contribution & receive what the new hires (and the rest of the industry) are getting.

it's simple, you should be able to opt out, give back the frozen A portion and join us at 15%.. full stop.

 

[Microclimates]

HA25 +1 on all counts!
regarding b plan: I didn't mean to belittle the issue, and I know that the 'junior' b planners got a mediocre deal (then again, in this industry 'junior' is synonymous with 'mediocre deal')... opting out seems to be the easiest fix, I would imagine.

as far as trip rig, also a hearty +1. If anything, this will be an incentive for more efficient pairings! so it's a win win for everyone: pilots get to work when they are at work, and be home when they are not working. the company gets better crew utilization, and not burning reserves on 5 day trips when people call in sick.

Also, from my perspective the issue isn't very much the 5 day international stuff (which is a function of non-daily flight schedules), it's the stupid 3 day lax, or 4 day vegas that, frankly, are inefficient because the company has no incentive to tweak the schedules to make them efficient.