HA - Latest System Bid

[xjhawk]

So i am assuming the 717 is an impossible mainland commute? I am almost laughing at myself just thinking about it. I would love to move back to Hawaii, but my kids are in the midwest and they are my main priority.

 

[HAL]

So i am assuming the 717 is an impossible mainland commute?

It's not impossible, but it isn't pretty. And if you're trying to go all the way to the midwest, it would be worse. We do have a few commuters. It just takes patience, a realistic point of view, and a high tolerance for jumpseats. The good news is that after two years you'd get your choice of aircraft since the 321NEOs will be showing up about then. Our planning people still say that almost everyone currently on the property will have a shot at the left seat by 2020, so these new-hires will be senior FOs by then.

HAL

 

[Junkflyer]

Some people do make pretty long commutes even interisland pilots. Realistically, with all the big boys hiring, you are better off at DAL, AAL, or UAL at least for a shorter commute in the future if nothing else. HAL is a good place to work, but commuting will never get easier.

 

[BentOver]

Because other than coming from some SWA trolls here, it's never been a rumor at Hawaiian. Nothing but Flightinfo make believe.

What Jim said

Atleast the other companies make some sense.... SWA going to China......:laugh:

 

[BentOver]

Our planning people still say that almost everyone currently on the property will have a shot at the left seat by 2020, so these new-hires will be senior FOs by then.

HAL

I've been running all sorts of scenarios/ numbers in my head....

I'm under the belief that there will always be that handful of FO's who won't give up their 3-4 day Australia's/Japan/Korea as a senior FO, to go do NEO West Coast for what may end up being a few thousand more $$ per year....

After seeing how many bypassed a chance at 717 Captain I think just about anyone hired in 2012 should atleast have an outside chance at junior NEO/717 Captain by the time the NEO's are nearly all delivered.....

Or worse case , be a senior widebody FO with a nice schedule....

Life could be worse!!!

 

[Microclimates]

I am a long distance commuter at HAL. I lucked out because as a new hire I was assigned a wide body airplane, and there was a bunch of hiring right after me, so I became 'senior' reserve pretty quickly. I can still remember the insane amount of stress I felt on that first day, waiting to find out what aircraft I was going to be on... I don't know if I could have stayed had I been assigned to the 717.

One very good thing at HAL is that reserve rostering is also accomplished via PBS, so it is in theory possible to stack all your days off... However, a) this happens by seniority (obviously) and b) we are entering contract negotiations: relevant because it is no secret that crew scheduling doesn't like reserve lines with 12 consecutive days off, since effectively it means that even when you are 'on', you still need 30hrs in 7 per part 117. will this be a bargaining chip in the negotiations? Hope not, but wouldn't be surprised if it was. HAL has many more commuters than it used to but make no mistake, it does not like, nor does it cater to, commuters, in any way (starting from new hire training-- or interviewing, for that matter... 72 hr notice for an interview anyone?)
So you might get sympathy from the union (definitely not corporate) but I don't feel that commuter QOL is anywhere near the top of the list.

I am blessed with having been offered this gig, and with how it turned out. I have an unusual commute because I go west, not to the mainland. If I were a mainland commuter (sorry HAL friends) I don't think I would have seen HAL as a good fit: as someone said earlier all the big boys are hiring. if you look at retirements, HAl has a MUCH younger pilot group than most mainland legacies. There are a LOT of 20 something year olds on property already, there are A LOT of 30 something widebody captains (relative to industry averages)... so, you MAY end up upgrading for a few years on the NEO, but you will forever be a junior captain, unless you are 18 when you join and can see all these kids through to their retirement party-- I know I can't.

Finally, not to be a debbie downer but there is a lot of koolaid sloshing around relative to the neo's. first of all, they won't be, entirely at least, growth aircraft-- they will replace some 717s on the interisland schedule, as they do HNL to outer island to US trips and back. Secondly, Ohana is a real player going forward, since even though language provides a 'floor' to jet inter-island flying, the company can go to the 'floor' and give all leftover flying to ohana. not to mention any GROWTH of inter-island markets is pretty much guaranteed to go to ohana (as is already happening: OGG-KOA, OGG-ITO).
Lastly, the 350 is no more: the new widebody will be the 330NEO, which will arrive in 2019, not 2017 as the 350 was supposed to...

So, as a commuter, I would say to any mainland commuter: think about it.

 

[xjhawk]

Thanks, Thats all good advice to think about. But the situation I am in and many of my co-workers are in is that of a loss of 1/2 of our seniority because of mergers, a huge loss in pay and QOL because of a bankruptcy and now the possible parking of the remaining 50 seat planes we have giving a future of more down grades and being a junior FO in New York. Is that better or worse than commuting to Paradise?

The smaller Majors like HA and Alaska have always been very high on my list, above the big three because of the work place environment and knowing your co-workers. This is a huge decision but I would feel very luck to be forced to move to Hawaii for a short while as I waited for a commutable schedule.

 

[mokulele50]

Thanks, Thats all good advice to think about. But the situation I am in and many of my co-workers are in is that of a loss of 1/2 of our seniority because of mergers, a huge loss in pay and QOL because of a bankruptcy and now the possible parking of the remaining 50 seat planes we have giving a future of more down grades and being a junior FO in New York. Is that better or worse than commuting to Paradise?

The smaller Majors like HA and Alaska have always been very high on my list, above the big three because of the work place environment and knowing your co-workers. This is a huge decision but I would feel very luck to be forced to move to Hawaii for a short while as I waited for a commutable schedule.

I'm expecting this round of hiring to really look hard into personal connections to Hawaii and the airline. In the last year we've had two pilots (both originally from 9E) leave to go to UAL and UPS. Both were commuting to the A330 in HNL from the midwest.

 

[Microclimates]

well, the good news is, there is no decision until there is a job offer! so apply away!

 

[Jim]

Microclimates - according to the figures given to the pilots when the 321s were announced, the pilot group is going to double in sise between 2013 and 2020 with a large increase in total aircraft. The charts for aircraft acquisition and retirement I've seen at the fleet managers's desk as late as last week still show this. Everyone who is on the pilot list now will easily be able to hold a Captain seat by 2020.

When I was a junior DC-10 FE and junior 717 FO, I had no problem commuting between HNL and LAS. I still commute frequently to LAS and now ROC (where my daughter is in college) with no problems. The ROC is multiple legs on other airlines where my HA seniority is meaningless. My bid is as one of the junior 767 Captains so pretty much garbage. Yet commuting has still been doable, just with more frequent, shorter stays versus less frequent longer stays.