HA - Latest System Bid

[Full of LUV]

Then there is the notorious 717 FO currently on property who goes around telling everyone he/she has their application in at Delta.

That's all you have to do to become "notorious" at HAL, drop an app online to Delta....

Funny thing is, why would you brag if you hadn't been offered a job?

 

[mdanno808]

I would say this the most accurate perspective. Micro, keep in mind we also hired a lot of older F/O's. When HA started hiring they hired all different ages in most of the classes. As far as 18 - 24 NEO's not being growth, I would have to disagree. They will replace some 767 flying I'm sure, but add many more routes. Inter-island will still be busy despite more outer island direct flights. My take is Ohana will only grow in markets that a 717 never would have flown anyway. If anything they will help feed mainline. I KNOW I KNOW, this is the thinking that let the cat out of the bag on the mainline and created the RJ debacle. I don't see that happening here at all. Inter-island will always be heavily traveled and require large A/C on the routes we use the 717 and Inter-island is too core to our pilot group to ever consider giving that up.
As far as commuting goes, seems to me there are numerous options that are easy from the west coast, you can even pair up with another pilot and split a pairing that would allow you to originate your flight on the west coast. I don't think your concerns about losing the 12 in a row are valid. We have always protected that. If it's any consolation the head of the negotiating committee and some members are commuters. I'm guessing the "new" MEC will be open and responsive to pilot input. They will be coming in as fresh blood.
But essentially, we have some quick upgrades and some of them are, in fact young. But we also have a lot of pilots that started here in their 40's or 50's. The a/c we have on order means a lot of hiring, the fact that our classes are filled with with pilots of all different ages means there shouldn't be the stagnation that hiring a whole class of fairly young pilots causes down the road when the inevitable slow downs come.

Ohana is already flying routes that our 717's fly (OGG-KOA/OGG-ITO, etc)

Our 717 block hours can be reduced drastically to hit the floor outlined in our current scope clause. Neo's can currently fly 3 legs per day, which could easily equate to HNL-OGG-SAN or HNL-LIH-LAX & SAN-OGG-HNL. If all Neo flights originate out of honolulu, fly an outer island leg plus a transpac leg, then reverse order on the return leg.....24 NEO's doing 24 interisland round trips per day equals less staffing on a designated interisland aircraft. Period. That is without any interference from Ohana. Ohana has how many tail numbers reserved? I heard 10. That's a lot of MKK and LNY flights. The Neo is the 767 replacement, as well as a way to consolidate a lot of the interisland flying. Some growth, yes, but not much. But there will be a training bubble.

 

[Microclimates]

+1. There are a lot of pluses in hal's future for sure. But also, the Koolaid runneth aplenty and it is good. Let's not launch into the upcoming negotiations assuming that everything will work out for the best. I am concerned that our union leadership is so proud and sure of the scope they negotiated that they don't see the potential loopholes, and are not even willing to entertain he notion that things may need to be tweaked at least... Respectfully

 

[Baronman]

T
Then there is the notorious 717 FO currently on property who goes around telling everyone he/she has their application in at Delta.

Was he obnoxious in general or was saying that he applied to Delta what made him some notorious? IF that's where he wanted to go, oh well...Doesn't seem so bad to me.

 

[Sleepyhead]

For the guys that say the 717 is not commutable, I'm curious what you consider as not a commutable time off? For example, if you have a few 3 consecutive days off, do you consider that not doable?
What do the junior lines look like?

 

[bravodude]

What Jim said

Atleast the other companies make some sense.... SWA going to China......:laugh:

We shall see who has the last laugh!

 

[Junkflyer]

There will be growth, though not to the extent of the big boys. We'll probably hire a total of 5 or 6 hundred by 2020. I heard that UAL will hire about 1400 this year.

 

[Jim]

There will be growth, though not to the extent of the big boys. We'll probably hire a total of 5 or 6 hundred by 2020. I heard that UAL will hire about 1400 this year.

Yeah but 500-600 basically doubles the size of our pilot group.

 

[BentOver]

Yeah but 500-600 basically doubles the size of our pilot group.

Hell I'd take about another 370 by 2020... That'll all but guarantee a 7-8 yr. upgrade for just about everyone on the current list

 

[nethan]

For the guys that say the 717 is not commutable, I'm curious what you consider as not a commutable time off? For example, if you have a few 3 consecutive days off, do you consider that not doable?
What do the junior lines look like?

Reserve is (mostly) very senior on the 717, so the bottom guys are getting lines most of the times. They tend to mixed PMs and AMs. Often times with only 1 day off between a block of two or three trips. PBS allows for some flexibility but it's hit or miss. I'm bidding about 10 from the bottom and managed (without trying) to get 2 blocks of three or more days off for October. The guys below me all had something similar. Keep in mind though, depending on where you are commuting from, you'll be burning a MINIMUM of 6 hours to get to work and there is are large blocks of the day (3pm to 10pm and 12pm to 7am) where there are no flights out.

This is NOT a commuter airline right now, although many people make it work.

 

[Microclimates]

FYI for all my commuting pals and palettes: FEDEX and UPS are an AMAZING resource to come out to the islands (even for interviewing...) They are super hospitable and come out quite a bit... They saved my bacon plenty of times and for that I am forever grateful...

 

[BentOver]

FYI for all my commuting pals and palettes: FEDEX and UPS are an AMAZING resource to come out to the islands (even for interviewing...) They are super hospitable and come out quite a bit... They saved my bacon plenty of times and for that I am forever grateful...

I've even heard that time permitting ( I would think), UPS guys have given rides from the south ramp to the terminal... Saving probably $20 in cab fare..

I almost decided to use UPS out of MIA, until a slightly better option came along.. Heard it is nice catching a ride with UPS though

 

[dicko]

Atlas does a flight once or twice a week from ORD direct to HNL. Arrives around 7am in HNL. The crews are incredibly welcoming. Eating a steak and napping in the bunk is a pretty comfortable way to commute.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Hats off to you guys that can tolerate a long haul commute. I get worn out doing my 1.5 hr.

 

[Microclimates]

... vacancy award cancelled... Does that mean no new hires either? very bare-bones memo saying oops, nobody told us at crew planning of the reduction of block hours, so as you were, boys and girls...

 

[HA25]

another west coast commuter here and it's very painless.... much like my schedule was when I was at the non-scheds.. Truth be told, the total lack of trip rigs and the "short call only" 12 day off reserve blows by comparison to what other Legacies have BUT we are about to go to the table and according to the chairman of the Neg committee, QOL and soft time are top on most people's list.. It will only get better, not worse is how I see it. With rigs, DAL FO's on the 330 are getting 15-21 days off.. here we're well behind that and so this costs us time away from home.. this will be addressed big time in Contract 2015.

That being said, I was interisland for a year, and the commute on that was a bit more painful.... but my light at the end of the tunnel was to bid off ASAP... now I believe you're looking at a 2 year seat lock sadly with the give backs we did for the 321 side letter..

Overall... especially if you live on the west coast at a HAL city, this is the most painless commute I've ever done.

 

[HA25]

Hats off to you guys that can tolerate a long haul commute. I get worn out doing my 1.5 hr.

9 out of 10 times, I'm sleeping in the LCRM (Lower Crew Rest Module) and get into HNL wide awake ready to rock! sometimes I operate the redeye that same night and feel more rested than if I just sat around all day waiting to do the same.

5 hours, 1 leg, with a place to lay down and sleep = heaven

 

[HA25]

This is NOT a commuter airline right now, although many people make it work.

it's worth mentioning that the attitude towards commuters at HAL is significantly more hostile than the actual commute itself.. Not sure why, but unlike every other carrier I know if, people here just don't seem to understand it. The "Why don't you live in Hawaii" question comes up very often.. even with the FAs.. The other day both the CA and I were west coast guys and the FA was very surprised and wouldn't stop talking about it.. but then like I said above, our schedules and lack of productivity leave much to be desired in terms of days off so yes, I can see why she might be confused...

It will only get better... can't get any worse and that is still doable.

 

[HAL]

... vacancy award cancelled... Does that mean no new hires either? very bare-bones memo saying oops, nobody told us at crew planning of the reduction of block hours, so as you were, boys and girls...

It's was a bunch of noise signifying nothing: The new vacancy bid is out, and it still has new-hires on it (14 instead of 19), and no furloughs. It's just the usual hyper-attention to staffing levels.

HAL

 

[Junkflyer]

Which means under staffing.

 

[HA25]

Which means under staffing.

Exactly! With guys bragging about flying 95+ hours at HAL, they have learned how to operate only lean.

 

[waveflyer]

How is trip trading at HAL? Schedule flexibility?

 

[Microclimates]

Yup, sorry hal... Just saw new vacancy in the inbox. Guess my pessimist a€€ jumped the gun on this one! So same same but different.

 

[HA25]

How is trip trading at HAL? Schedule flexibility?

behind the rest, but getting there.... new side letter for dropping to 60 only it requires trip trade and you cannot just "drop".. still must bid a 75 hour line to start with also. This was done outside of section 6 however and I expect in section 6 we will get A LOT of the same perks and benefits other carriers have. Like I said, guys here are hell bent on quality of life improvements.

 

[mdanno808]

We have flica, only it is not truly a trip dropping system. It is a trip drop requesting system, which still requires crew scheduling approval. I had over 80 hours last month, and tried to drop about 6 different weekday trips (4:10 credit) and was denied each time due to insufficient reserve coverage.

 

[waveflyer]

Can you trade your trips with company open time?
How about with other pilots?
Point being - what's the overall schedule flexibility in moving days around?

 

[HA25]

Can you trade your trips with company open time?
How about with other pilots?
Point being - what's the overall schedule flexibility in moving days around?

you can trade with other crew... not with open time and no moving anything around.. it is VERY limited at this time because it was implemented POST-section 6 via side letters and there will be no real flexibility until we negotiate industry style work rules into our next contract.

 

[waveflyer]

Ah, I always love that old management play book.
Flexibility helps management as much as us- most pilots I know will voluntarily fly more if they can manipulate their schedule to work for their lives. But management thinks like bean counters and will try and make you spend negotiating capital that will help them as well.
Good luck

 

[mdanno808]

That's why the company is always complaining about sick leave being so high. They fail to realize that little things like allowing more schedule flexibility will decrease sick leave. Most of our managers, particularly those involved in scheduling, are absolutely clueless.

 

[nethan]

you can trade with other crew... not with open time and no moving anything around..

I trade stuff around with open time all the time. It gets denied for staffing a lot, but the ability to do it is there. You just can't trade below 75 with open time.