HA - Latest System Bid

[xjhawk]

Thanks Jim, Thats what I wanted to hear! Like I said, I lived in Hawaii years ago and loved it and wanted to move them there if I got the job-but bringing my kids and the ex-wife could be troublesome Kids would love growing up there, its a wonderful place to live. Also, Working for a great company with recognizable (personal relationships) great people has always been very high on my list. I cannot say what others will do, but the first major to hire me is where I will spend the rest of my career.

If new hires leaving is an issue, maybe they could look to the former XJ (9e) pilots who are in their mid 40's and not their late 20's or early 30's on who they hire as those my age don't want to be jumping around-our time left before retirement does not make that a good option (that was for Mokulele50's response to those who have left from 9e).

 

[Flywithmike]

HAl has a MUCH younger pilot group than most mainland legacies. There are a LOT of 20 something year olds on property already,

This didn't sound right to me, so I checked the retirement list and we have exactly 6 (out of more than 600 pilots) that are 29 or younger. In other words, more than 99% of the pilot group is older than 29. Most of our younger pilots are at least in their 30's.

I'm a junior FO west coast commuter on the A330 and I haven't had any trouble with the commuting. It's actually really easy most of the time. If you commute on the Airbus, you can go sleep in the lower crew rest bunk which is a huge bonus.

Flying trips into your home city is nice as well.

 

[HAL]

I'm expecting this round of hiring to really look hard into personal connections to Hawaii and the airline. In the last year we've had two pilots (both originally from 9E) leave to go to UAL and UPS. Both were commuting to the A330 in HNL from the midwest.

Out of the 200+ pilots hired since 2008 we've had two leave to go elsewhere. I think that's better than any legacy carrier during the same period. Yes, the company looks for connections to Hawaii as they've always done. But I'm sure they are primarily looking for great pilots and great people. I have no complaints about the hiring they've done so far. Everyone has been great, including the two that left (I flew with both). I think we're going to get another group of great people this time around too.

HAL

 

[Microclimates]

Hey Fly

I am happy for you that the commuting is working out for you. the bunk is awesome for commuters, if only it were available on augmented crew trips
I hope the neo schedule, when it comes, will be as conducive to low-stress commuting as the wb are...

As far as my numbers go, while I may have exaggerated slightly on just how young the group is, how many of the captains you fly with are younger than 55? I would speculate quite a few.

The only retirement list I have (gotta get a new one!) is way out of date, from jan 2011. On that list, there are 6 people retiring after 2048 (making them 20-somethings now). However, the list is from 1/2011. at the time, there were barely 400 pilots on property. Since then we have hired 230 odd people, quite a few of them, I believe, are quite young (though I have no data beyond observation)

Regardless of all that, even if I am completely wrong about the 20 somethings, and maybe even the 30 somethings, most of this group is young, compared to many mainland legacies. a lot are already wb captains. Hey good for them, they fought tooth and nail for everything they have.

All that said, it is a great company with a fantastic lifestyle potential. I am happy here and rock the pualani on my tie. Just trying to be realistic about the long hike up the seniority list...

 

[Flywithmike]

Yeah, I hope the neo schedule works out well
for committing also. You're right, most captains i fly with are under 55, but I'd guess very few are in their 30's. I was using the latest retirement list dated 9/13 which I think accounts for everyone on property. I'm too lazy to actually figure it out, but If I had to guess, I would estimate the median age of the entire group at Hawaiian to be around 43.

 

[...Lost]

Using the 9/13 list I count 2 widebody captains under the age of 40. I didn't check the 717 from the last vacancy award but looks like roughly 10 captains under 40 over there. I did count that there are 276 pilots over the age of 50...

 

[FLYN4LVE]

In other news, I hear that "never been a captain" Longhorn is still an instructor despite all the uproar.

 

[mokulele50]

Out of the 200+ pilots hired since 2008 we've had two leave to go elsewhere. I think that's better than any legacy carrier during the same period. Yes, the company looks for connections to Hawaii as they've always done. But I'm sure they are primarily looking for great pilots and great people. I have no complaints about the hiring they've done so far. Everyone has been great, including the two that left (I flew with both). I think we're going to get another group of great people this time around too.

HAL

The two that I mentioned left in the last year alone. There was also a guy hired a year and half ago that quit during indoc because he was awarded the 717 (he was planning to commute from PDX). Another guy quit during training (he was also struggling) when he realized his commute to the 717 from LAX wasn't going to work with his family life.

Two years ago a new hire left after getting his 767 type rating.

Then there is the notorious 717 FO currently on property who goes around telling everyone he/she has their application in at Delta.

A commute from the mainland to our 717 operation is extremely difficult (NOTE: ALL NEW HIRES THIS ROUND WILL BE ASSIGNED TO THE 717 AND SEATLOCKED FOR TWO YEARS). It is clear to me that many guys came to HAL for the quick widebody experience. Those days are done for now. If you want to live a happy life with HAL for the next two years, plan on moving here.

 

[Dan Roman]

Using the 9/13 list I count 2 widebody captains under the age of 40. I didn't check the 717 from the last vacancy award but looks like roughly 10 captains under 40 over there. I did count that there are 276 pilots over the age of 50...

I would say this the most accurate perspective. Micro, keep in mind we also hired a lot of older F/O's. When HA started hiring they hired all different ages in most of the classes. As far as 18 - 24 NEO's not being growth, I would have to disagree. They will replace some 767 flying I'm sure, but add many more routes. Inter-island will still be busy despite more outer island direct flights. My take is Ohana will only grow in markets that a 717 never would have flown anyway. If anything they will help feed mainline. I KNOW I KNOW, this is the thinking that let the cat out of the bag on the mainline and created the RJ debacle. I don't see that happening here at all. Inter-island will always be heavily traveled and require large A/C on the routes we use the 717 and Inter-island is too core to our pilot group to ever consider giving that up.
As far as commuting goes, seems to me there are numerous options that are easy from the west coast, you can even pair up with another pilot and split a pairing that would allow you to originate your flight on the west coast. I don't think your concerns about losing the 12 in a row are valid. We have always protected that. If it's any consolation the head of the negotiating committee and some members are commuters. I'm guessing the "new" MEC will be open and responsive to pilot input. They will be coming in as fresh blood.
But essentially, we have some quick upgrades and some of them are, in fact young. But we also have a lot of pilots that started here in their 40's or 50's. The a/c we have on order means a lot of hiring, the fact that our classes are filled with with pilots of all different ages means there shouldn't be the stagnation that hiring a whole class of fairly young pilots causes down the road when the inevitable slow downs come.

 

[Jim]

Of course the company is going to try and hold contract negotiations/improvements hostage to the A321Neos like they tried when we got the A330s. I can hear Dunkerley now...."We can't grow if we give you what you want. Choose growth or contract improvements, you can't have both." With the bottom half of the list being new blood and with the new MEC I think we as a pilot group will call Bull ********************, but I know the words are coming.