Gulfstream getting CoEx Routes?

[Lord Wakefield]

The "my flying" mindset came from the Europeans who do all sorts of things to prevent U.S. pilots from going there and doing "their flying."

We just turned it around on them out of the frustration of seeing these same Europeans coming here and still treating it as "their flying."

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Excellent!!!

When we run out of qualifiable Americans, then and only then can we recruit foreigners.

Importing foreign indentured servants (often subsidized by their own governments) to do jobs americans would do for a living wage SUCKS and is unpatriotic.

 

[El Duderino]

Lord Wakefield,
My thoughts exactly. Contact your congressman. I have done my part.
duder

 

[Publishers]

Flying

The point here had nothing to do with foreign flyers, it had to do with people who think that flying belongs to someone who is not the company or entity that contracts for it.

 

[Britpilot]

Re: at least a scab heals an open wound

I don't think this is gonna fly. 'Stream aircraft operating out of EWR that is. New Yorkers wouldn't like the idea of foreigners coming here for flight training on student/tourist visas and then flying commercial, albeit small, Beech Airliners into buildings.

You are quite right that Gulfstream will not be flying out of EWR. The Port Authority will not allow ANY new turbo prop service out of this airport. Only current turbo prop service is allowed under the "grandfather" clause.
Neither is flight training allowed on a tourist visa, has to be a student visa like a J1 or M1. These visa are arranged via a reciprocal arrangement with participating countries.
Under the JAR's it is actually easier to obtain a European ATP certificate than it was in the past you might want to check on this.
To work in a European country requires a work permit or resident status just like the United States requires. It is not easy to obtain a work permit or "green card" here. Students that fly here as instructors ect. are under the J1 program that allows foreign nationals to gain experiance in their specific field for up to 24 months. This not only includes flying but any professional career listed within the J1 program. Just some facts for you.

 

[Britpilot]

Lord Wakefield,
My thoughts exactly. Contact your congressman. I have done my part.
duder

Hope you got your facts straight this time.

 

[Britpilot]

The "my flying" mindset came from the Europeans who do all sorts of things to prevent U.S. pilots from going there and doing "their flying."

Like what exactly? Please specify what these Europeans are doing to prevent you from flying there.

 

[Dieterly]

Just got off the phone with a friend that works for Gulfstream, according to him they will make a big announcement soon (all I can say it that COEX and IAH is involved). Anyone know if Gulfstream is a public company, might be a good time to pick up a few stocks...

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Anyone know if Gulfstream is a public company, might be a good time to pick up a few stocks...

Yeah sure. Just sent them the money and you could wind up holding an empty bag just like those who signed up for the health care plan and the 401K.

1(800)Avtar55

 

[Sphincter Boy]

Anyone know if Gulfstream is a public company, might be a good time to pick up a few stocks...

Sure its called pay for investing. You buy their stock and in 6months you have the possibility of really owning the stock .

 

[TurboS7]

Mr. Nigel,
1)6 months just to get a JAR license
2)You have to be sponsered by an airline just to be able to enter a college.
3)Work permit which is impossible to get
4)etc. etc.

Contrast that to coming over here where GA is very active then everyone just stays here gets a green card and bang yes European pilots are taking U.S. jobs in a unfair world economy. When we work over there the EU's whine and cry about how we are stealing their work. Amazing how everything is honky dory when the EU's come over here and fly on American soil, while American guys are out of work. Tit for tat, maybe the JAR's should reconize a U.S. certificate for what it is. Seems like the high and mighty EU doesn't reconize that.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

It's called Fortress Europe. And instead of just sitting on the sidelines and ooh and ahh, it's time this country respond. At least let's cut the umbilical cord and see how long the Eurocrats can tred water.

 

[Britpilot]

Mr. Nigel,
1)6 months just to get a JAR license
2)You have to be sponsered by an airline just to be able to enter a college.
3)Work permit which is impossible to get
4)etc. etc.

Contrast that to coming over here where GA is very active then everyone just stays here gets a green card and bang yes European pilots are taking U.S. jobs in a unfair world economy. When we work over there the EU's whine and cry about how we are stealing their work. Amazing how everything is honky dory when the EU's come over here and fly on American soil, while American guys are out of work. Tit for tat, maybe the JAR's should reconize a U.S. certificate for what it is. Seems like the high and mighty EU doesn't reconize that.

1) No, If you have an ATP this can be converted in a few DAYS. check your research.
2)No, you can pay to train just like here. The Only airline sponsered college is BA at Prestwick in Scotland. If you want a college education in Europe you have to buy one, sound familar?
3)No again, you have to qualify just like you do here.

Please tell me how you just "get a green card" These are not handed out to all who ask for them, you must qualify for permanant resident status, it is not something that is just given away.
There are thousands of US citizens working in the UK alone in many professions amazing how that is "honky dory" for them, when there are many British citizens who are out of work, how do you think they feel?
The JAA does recognize the US ATP for what it is and you can convert as a lot of people have i.e pilots that fly for Cathy Pacific have both a FAA and a JAA certificate.
Before you spout on about europeans coming over here and stealing your jobs, do some research and find out how many US citizens are over there working and stealing jobs from them.
Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Britpilot]

It's called Fortress Europe. And instead of just sitting on the sidelines and ooh and ahh, it's time this country respond. At least let's cut the umbilical cord and see how long the Eurocrats can tred water.

Interesting quote "fortress europe" That was used during world war two, you know the one the US were two years late entering, after they were two years late entering the first war. And please save the "you would all be speaking german if it was'nt for us" garbage. The UK stood alone for those two years and repelled the german attempts to invade.
"Lets cut the umbilical cord" To what? The biggest foreign invester in the US is the UK. If they pulled their cash I wonder how long the US could last.
Time to respond to what? The euro is almost the same value as the dollar, seems they are doing ok over there.

 

[bobbysamd]

History

. . . you know the one the US were two years late entering, after they were two years late entering the first war.

Did I miss out on something in my American history class?

Didn't President Roosevelt supply the UK with destroyers and other war materiel for two years prior to the United States' entry in the war that you reference? That was the Lend-Lease Act. Notable in that regard was the P-51 Mustang was first provided to England pursuant to a British purchasing requirement. I have to believe that all the materiel supplied during the two years in question helped the British hold off the Germans a little bit. Not to mention the American airmen who flew with the RAF.

Define "entering" the war. If I am not mistaken, wasn't it the Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 that caused the U.S. to declare war on Japan and Germany?

I'd first review history before making the declarative statements you made above.

 

[mckpickle]

Nigel

Your on your own here. But maybe we can pick on the French. i know I know, easy target right

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Bobby, Nigel is pretty much on target with his comments. From what I have read, the US didn't start to get seriously involved until after Churchill took office and that was after a lot of prodding from Churchill. Yes the US had the lend lease program but that in itself only helped the war effort at best. Joe Kennedy, the ambassador to England, wanted the US to stay out of it even while England was being attacked.
England held Germany at bay buying time for the US to gear up for the war effort. Obviously, Japan was the final straw for the US to get involved.
Yes, the US was the major player in winning the war but England (and eventually the cursed Russians) bought time until reinforcements could come in. Overall, it was a team effort.
I also agree with Nigel's comments about UK money in the US. It is much, much more than people realize. Even the company I work for is British. Who knows, maybe the Lion is modern day Babylon ?!
Apologize for straying from the original thread.

 

[bobbysamd]

History revisionism

I thought this was a Gulfstream/P-F-T "discussion."

Take a look at the time frame. I don't recall the exact year, but I believe it was around 1939 when Churchill replaced David Lloyd-George as British Prime Minister. It wasn't too long thereafter when Lend-Lease began. The U.S. sent fifty destroyers to Great Britain. The U.S. sent aircraft. I realize the American airmen who flew with the RAF, and the RCAF, for that matter, were volunteers, but they still served long before the U.S. declared war on the Axis. Don't forget the risky convoys. Maybe Americans were not on the lines per se (although American pilots flying Spitfires and Hurricanes would certainly qualify in that regard), but the U.S. was certainly supplying Great Britain with war materiel. I do not call that "standing by" for two years.

You are correct that Joseph P. Kennedy urged President Roosevelt to stay out of the war. Of course, that was consistent with the long-standing American policy of isolationism.

I do not disagree with Nigel's observation that the British single-handedly held off the Germans on that front. That is undisputed fact, especially after the French folded and in the Battle of Britain. But, once again, define "entry" into WWII. Speculation runs rampant that President Roosevelt et al knew of the impending Japanese attack and let it happen to facilitate the U.S.'s entry in the war. That is only speculation and not fact. Just the same, the Japanese attacked and the U.S. declared war the next day. Nigel's characterization that the U.S. stood by for two years twiddling its thumbs is, at best, a gross distortion of the facts of history and revisionism.

I realize that this is not the World History/Europolitik Forum.

 

[Britpilot]

Just having some fun with you all, wondered who would take the bait As a point of interest my father served with the British army in North Africa and Italy, he was "recruited" at seventeen and served as a tank driver from 1941 until 1946
Yes I am aware of the lend lease program, that did not begin until after the start of hostilities and Churchill,who was boss of the Admiralty before becoming Pime Minister, had to plead with the US for their support against the Nazis, from Roosevelt. Roosevelt supported entry into the war but there was oposition from Congress, hence the delay that the Japanese helped to shorten.
The Mustang was built to a British requirement but did not see service until 1941 prior to that the fighter defense was provided by the Spitfire and Hurricane.
The US is also a very large invester in Europe which also equates to being a large employer over there in many countries, with the tax advantages that creates and the obvious revenue, it is a nice deal for corporate America.
You may have also noticed that the UK is usually one of the first to sign up for support of the US in many of the global conflicts that plague us today. You see we enjoy a good fight.
Me? I am just a former Brit who is now a proud American. Can any one say "God save the President"?

 

[bobbysamd]

History

You are indeed the sly one, Mr. Brit. I appreciate the sentiments and accuracy of your latest post.

Your father most certainly endured some difficult duty during the war. I had an uncle who served in the U.S. Army in the same theaters during the same time.

We should also mention that the Allison-powered P-51A was a great low-level aircraft but ineffective at high altitude. The Merlin engine installation changed all that.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Nothing frosts me more than praise for that turncoat Churchill. "History of English Speaking Peoples" what drivel.

Britain keeping the Nazis at bay? It was only because of their agreement with Poland that the Nazi thugs abandoned their policy of Ostpolitik and turned westward. Lesson, British meddling brought them problems they couldn't take care of without outside help.

U.S. late in WWI ? Should we have even been involved in that scrap? Afterwards, the Brits and French would dictate terms of surrender (the Germans only agreed to an Armistice) that would lay the ground work for Hitler and his minions to come to power by legal means.

Britain first to line up to help the United States?
Yes, unfortunately this is true. I wish they wouldn't; they only get in the way!

 

[Britpilot]

Nothing frosts me more than praise for that turncoat Churchill. "History of English Speaking Peoples" what drivel.

Britain keeping the Nazis at bay? It was only because of their agreement with Poland that the Nazi thugs abandoned their policy of Ostpolitik and turned westward. Lesson, British meddling brought them problems they couldn't take care of without outside help.

U.S. late in WWI ? Should we have even been involved in that scrap? Afterwards, the Brits and French would dictate terms of surrender (the Germans only agreed to an Armistice) that would lay the ground work for Hitler and his minions to come to power by legal means.

Britain first to line up to help the United States?
Yes, unfortunately this is true. I wish they wouldn't; they only get in the way!

Now that is funny stuff. I still don't see how Churchill can be described as a turncoat. Interesting fact was his mother was American and he himself spent some time over here.
Sorry we get in YOUR way, hope you like the Harrier and the Goshawk, very useful equipment in times of conflict. Not to mention the SAS, finest special force there is. But maybe you have no military experiance to base these comments on.
Also interesting handle, Lord Wakefield, a fine town in Yorkshire, England. Lord, of course, being a title of English gentry.
You are correct about Hitler, we did allow him time to build his military strength even after Churchill warned the world in 1935 of this threat, but he was branded a war monger at the time. Sounds familar, they say that history repeats itself.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Not to mention the SAS, finest special force there is. /B]

Yes, let's not mention the SAS, that hopeless hodgepodge of misfits and cross dressers who've shown all the dependability of an English car.

Better you should have called up the Black & Tan's. Now, that would have been scary!

 

[bobbysamd]

Our British Cousins

I still don't see how Churchill can be described as a turncoat. Interesting fact was his mother was American and he himself spent some time over here.

Score one for Mr. Brit. How can anyone classify Churchill as a turncoat? I recall seeing or hearing recently that Churchill and the Georges Bush have a common distant relative.

Originally posted by Britpilot [H]ope you like the Harrier and the Goshawk, very useful equipment in times of conflict . . . . .

I agree. The Harriers proved their worth as level fighters in the Falkland Islands war. The USMC have found them to be useful, too.

Originally posted by Britpilot You are correct about Hitler, we did allow him time to build his military strength even after Churchill warned the world in 1935 of this threat, but he was branded a war monger at the time. Sounds familar, they say that history repeats itself.

Agreed, especially after Hitler abrogated the Treaty of Versailles. I think most people would agree, too.

Once more, I didn't know this was the History Channel. But, interesting discussion, nevertheless.

 

[Britpilot]

Yes, let's not mention the SAS, that hopeless hodgepodge of misfits and cross dressers who've shown all the dependability of an English car.

Better you should have called up the Black & Tan's. Now, that would have been scary!

Ahh, the Black and Tans, now I see where your coming from, a terrorist supporter, they were nothing but a bunch of cowards, just like all terrorists.
How about we mention that the SAS trained and continue to train US special forces, are you going to call them cross dressers too?
You are clearly nothing more than a British hater. Sorry that I am a Brit and are the target of your hatred. Hope you enjoyed the VC10 and the Sopwiths. Both, of course, British aircraft.
And of course any cars are much more dependable than those Jaguars, Rolls Royces and Range Rovers aren't they?

 

[TurboS7]

Nigel,
I have a UK ATPL temp that is good for two years. I myself passed the written law exam and also did a checkride to ATP 737 standards under the watchful eye of the head of the CAA. If I wanted to get a real airline job in the EU I would have to have my license changed into a JAR license. To get the JAR license I have to take a six month college course and have an airline sponser me. Check out what has happened in your own country, it is not the same as it was even a year ago. Cheers.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Yes, Churchill's mother was born here. Brooklyn if memory serves me correctly; and a street in the Bronx bears her name.

Turncoat is not the name I gave him. How many political parties did he belong to? At least, he was something of a pilot (flew an Avro 504)

Germany didn't surrender in WWI. She agreed to an ARMISTICE on Wilson's 14 pts, laid down her arms and sent her High Seas Fleet to the British base at Scapa Flow. Versailles was a Carthaginian peace, a dictat, imposed on a disarmed Germany at the point of millions of guns during a starvation blockade. If she didn't give up 1/10 her land and 8 million people, Marshall Foch would have marched on Berlin. Ask a lawyer (no, let's not involve them) any contract signed at gun point is invalid (that's not to say I oppose the Magna Carta in principle). Though Hitler's rearming of Germany was a breach of Versailles, the decision to build a navy 1/3 the size of Britain's was assented to by Britain is negotiations when Churchill was a member of the Labour party.

I had a Jag-u-ar once and it cured me. The only reason the Brits don't market computers is because they haven't figured out how to make one leak. And it was a lousy British Leyland car and didn't get fixed till Ford stepped in. Even James Bond no longer drives an Aston Martin.

I'm hardly a Brit hater. You guys make the world's best mustard. Try it, it'll put hair on your chest!

 

[Britpilot]

Nigel,
I have a UK ATPL temp that is good for two years. I myself passed the written law exam and also did a checkride to ATP 737 standards under the watchful eye of the head of the CAA. If I wanted to get a real airline job in the EU I would have to have my license changed into a JAR license. To get the JAR license I have to take a six month college course and have an airline sponser me. Check out what has happened in your own country, it is not the same as it was even a year ago. Cheers.

Just called the CAA. Don't know where this airline sponsership came from, as you can get the JAR ATPL based on your FAA ATP. It will cost some cash as there is a check ride involved and of course a fee for logbook inspection and the writtens. You can also go yo any JAR country for the srevice.

 

[TurboS7]

The sponsership is for the work permit for an individual that is not part of the EU by citizen ship. In other words the airline is saying that they want this individual working for them due to specific qualifications etc. As you well know the rules are changing faster that any of us can keep up with them, my info is based on experience a couple of years ago. That is news about the JAA ATPL we were told we would have to go to six months of "college" in order to qualify to take the written. Maybe all that has change too. Thanks for checking.

 

[Britpilot]

Agreed, if you do not have a way to gain a work permit then you do have to be sponsered. Very similar to here if you need to get a work permit.
The JAR's are "work in progress" especially when it comes to training regulations. I worked on this for two years for an international acadamy based here. A lot of the rules mirrored Part 141 regs and all schools have to be approved by the JAA in order to give flight instruction. The conversion process is still one of those areas that is changing. Once your logbook is "reviewed" you will be told of what is required to convert. For instance, they give credit for type ratings, PIC time under part 121,SIC time under Part 121 and any heavy time. My freind here in SC just came back from a trip to Holland last week and he had the logbook review and was amazed at how little was required to convert, so was I.
It does cost quite a bit of cash but then Europe has never been cheap and the flying over there is very different with all the controlled airspace and Eurocontrol, but if you think you need the license it is obtainable.