Gulfstream First Officer Program

[BoredToDeath]

I have flown with several former GIA FO's at my company, and all of them were professional and competent. That doesn't mean I endorse their PFT program; I think there are better and cheaper ways to build time, but that doesn't mean that the full-time GIA pilots are any less professional than anyone else.

To be blunt, I think that anyone who calls someone else a derogatory name simply because that person chose another route to the airlines than he did is a sad person who tries to blame others for his own career problems. I preferred to build experience by flying corporate until I had enough time to qualify without PFT, but I have no problem with someone who chooses to work his butt off saving his money for a PFT program. No one owes you a job, and the PFTer is not stealing anyone's job.

Wow, I thought that this thread would be done by now. I'll make this response quick cause I gotta go get tires before the snow really kicks in.

Nindiri,

I actually never said that the GIA pilots who PFT'd were less professional than anyone else, I said they were SCUMBAGS. Please quote me correctly in the future. You can choose not to call someone a derogatory if thats the way you feel. I on the other hand belive that the name fits.

It fits because these PFT'ers are helping management in the process of destroying our payscales. By forking up the money they are telling Mgnt. that, " hey I love to fly soooo much that I'll do anything to do it". I don't know about you or anyone else here but I won't "Do anything" to do this job. I'll do it for MONEY. (that doesn't sound right does it?) Well you know what I mean.

I respect your opinion of me, you think I'm sad and theres probably not much I could say to change your mind about it, but I'll try anywhy. My use of the word SCUMBAG I feel is the only way to get the point across to the ones just starting out in this industry of how bad it is to PFT. Just like the way we use the word SCAB to describe the POS who will cross a pickett line to better their own self interests.

And to address your opinion that I'm only blaming others for my career problems. You could'nt further from the truth. If you read the begining of the thread you'll see that someone asked for an opinion and I gave them one. Is that wrong? No.

I am very happy with my career. I've worked at many companies, flown many types of planes to alot of different places. I do have one regret though. I wish I had stayed in the charter biz, airline flying is really boring, but that has nothing to do with my opinion of PFT programs and the pilots that get suckered into them.

These programs hurt the industry and thats why I'm against them not for any other reason that you or anyone else can come up with.

 

[PCL_128]

Apache54:

As a former GIA student and employee, I have some reservations about the company. However, in your case I would say that the First Officer Program is just what you need. After you finish your 250 hours in the 1900 you will most likely get an interview with Pinnacle (Northwest Airlink). With your experience you will almost certainly get the job unless you say something really stupid. Six or eight months from when you start at GIA you could be training in the CRJ. It would work great for you.

The people on here that blast those that PFT are the minority in this business. They are a very vocal minority, but a minority none the less. As B190Captain said earlier, GIA grads have gone on to jobs at just about every major and regional airline there is. Even CoEx, which is very partial to CFI experience, hired many GIA grads before 9/11. It is highly unlikely that you will ever be denied a job because you went to GIA.

 

[aviatrix]

GIA PFT

The people on here that blast those that PFT are the minority in this business. They are a very vocal minority, but a minority none the less.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, PCL! I do believe they are more like the non-vocal majority! It really depends on what kind of background they've come from. If they've spent a lot of blood, sweat, and tears working their way through the CFI world and then on to cargo flying to build "quality" time, they are going to have a lot of disdain for programs that have 250 hour pilots flying a Part 121 job! It's just not highly regarded by most!

 

[wannab0133]

gia captains

if the gia fo's go to airlink for interviews, where to the gia 1900 captains come from? do they hire them off the street? that would be an interesting route to go. get 2 or 3k hours cfiing/cargo/etc. then get hired by gia as a off the street captain and still have that monkey on your back with out pft. seems like airlink would want the 1900 captains.....

 

[Mayday911]

The only people in this industry that don't despise PFT, are the people that did it. I know of many people that actually did the PFT thing and regret it now!!

You are just trying to justify what you did in your own eyes!!

Mayday

 

[PCL_128]

Re: gia captains

if the gia fo's go to airlink for interviews, where to the gia 1900 captains come from? do they hire them off the street? that would be an interesting route to go. get 2 or 3k hours cfiing/cargo/etc. then get hired by gia as a off the street captain and still have that monkey on your back with out pft. seems like airlink would want the 1900 captains.....

Airlink has taken a few GIA Captains, but very few of them are asking for interviews. I talked to a few of them a couple of months ago, and when I asked them why they didn't want to interview their response was: "I'm a captain. I'm too good to pull gear for some RJ captain." Many of them are still in the mindset of the late 90's when GIA captains were going straight to Delta and United. They refuse to accept that they will have to spend the next 5-10 years at a regional. They think that if they wait a year or two then they will get hired by Airtran or SWA. I guess they haven't seen how long the list of poolies is for SWA.

Since very few captains have been leaving GIA for the last year or so, there hasn't really been an upgrade problem. They have upgraded a few high-time FO's, but upgrades have been almost nonexistent from what I've heard. I doubt they will allow themselves to get into a situation where they will have to hire off-the-street captains. They learned their lesson last time they did that a few years ago. Deciding how to integrate them into the seniority list was one of the most contentious issues when the IBT contract was being worked out last year. If GIA starts to have a shortage of upgradeable FO's, they will just stop offering interviews at Airlink and the FO's will stay at GIA until upgrade. Either way, the FO's get a good deal. They either go fly a CRJ, or they upgrade to captain on the 1900.

My main worry about recommending GIA to low time guys is the possibility that Airlink will stop hiring before they finish their training and 250 hours. If you start at GTA with 0 time, it will take about a year and a half to finish everything including your 250 hours to be eligible for an interview with Airlink. By then, we might not be hiring GIA grads. What would happen to them then? For guys like Apache54 though, he will finish his 250 in 6 months and be off to Airlink. We definitely won't stop hiring guys at Pinnacle anytime this year. The latest estimate is about 200 pilots to be hired this year. Since the NWA furloughees have stopped applying, that leaves mostly GIA grads.

Bottom line is this: GIA is good for some people, but not for all. If you think it will work out for you, don't listen to all this anti-PFT nonsense on here. The guys doing the interviews at the majors don't give a $hit where you got 250 hours of 1900 time. If you mention GIA to most guys at the majors, they won't even know what you're talking about. They don't concern themselves with something so trivial. Just do what is best for you, and don't worry what they people here say about PFT.

 

[46Driver]

I'm going to agree with PCL_128 (its probably snowing in he11 now) and Jim. Most of my buds PFT'ed in the mid to late 90's because they were helo pilots and nobody counted helicopter time. After flying for 10 years in the Corps, to say that "they didn't pay their dues" and that "they are cutting in line" is ridiculous - and that comment about calling veterans SCUMBAGS is WAY out of line. Go to APTAP.org for info and contacts - for every anti-PFT who screams at you, there will be a 2 helo bubbas to walk in your resume. Finally, use the G.I. Bill - no sense spending your money when you can use BoredtoDeath's tax dollars

 

[B190Captain]

Quote by PCL_128:

Airlink has taken a few GIA Captains, but very few of them are asking for interviews. I talked to a few of them a couple of months ago, and when I asked them why they didn't want to interview their response was: "I'm a captain. I'm too good to pull gear for some RJ captain."

What captains have you spoken to? Certainly not me. That's a pretty sad attitude.

The following is why I do not have interest in Pinnacle:

1. No Pay while in training (AFTER HIRED). Correct me if I am wrong but it's around 2 months till your ride?

2. Pinnacle does not pay for ANYTHING while you train such as lodging, transportation, meals and so on.

3. Too big of a paycut to be able to afford to support myself and my family. In my opinion, FO pay is really bad for the first year or even second for that matter. I would guess it would take up to 2 years to upgrade.

4. Bad quality of life I can deal with since I would be junior in seniority but the aforementioned factors on top of that will be too much to bear.

I sincerely have no problem flying with a lesser experienced captain than myself. If I was better compensated, I would most likely enjoy the break from the responsibility of being a captain.

They refuse to accept that they will have to spend the next 5-10 years at a regional. They think that if they wait a year or two then they will get hired by Airtran or SWA. I guess they haven't seen how long the list of poolies is for SWA.

Where are you getting this information from? You actually think it will take that long? I hope most of you guys believe that because if you stay 10 years at a regional, why not stay until retirement? By that time the pay should be good and quality of life too. I hope you do that so I won't have to compete with you for a slot in a major or any other carrier for that matter. (hehe)

Hope future contracts will get you guys the pay you deserve.

Best of luck to all at Pinnacle.

Fly Safe!

 

[PCL_128]

B190Captain:

I didn't mean that all the GIA captains I've talked to thought that way. Just several I talked to a few months ago. About 2-3 months ago I was at the training center at FXE and talked to a few captains that were in recurrent. They asked a bunch of questions about Pinnacle and I told them everything you mentioned about no pay, no pass privelages, etc while in training. While that bothered them, there were about 4 or 5 of them that had the attitude I mentioned in my previous post. They cared more about having to sit right seat in an RJ than the no pay during training.

I do think it is quite possible that it will be longer than 5 years before the majors start hiring in any significant numbers. NWA just announced last week that they would like concessions and over 300 more furloughes. Delta will probably be the first to start hiring again, but even General Lee says it will be around 3-4 years before they would be looking to hire anyone, and he's pretty optimistic. The chances that you will be able to go straight to a major from GIA within the next 5 years are almost nonexistent.

P.S. Thanks for the good wishes on our next contract. It's a long way off though. (spring of '05 is amend date)

 

[100LL... Again!]

There are a small number of pilots who actually posses the necessary knowledge and skills to be a TRUE 121 pilot, athough a green one.

The rest are so green that it will take them 500 hours just to learn how much they DON'T know.

Sad. The days of hiring real pilots for their skills and experince seem to be waning. Good thing for all the automation, though. Keeps them rookies in one piece.