Ground the Q400

[GearUpJammer]

Just for clarification, AE brought the ATR's back North. The factors in the Roselawn accident are well documented. As a side note, Command Airways of Poughkeepsee,NY was the launch customer of the ATR in the US. Command and Nashville Eagle merged to form Flagship Airlines/AE. Flagship had a very good safety record flying the ATR in the Northeast.

 

[say again]

Flyprdu is an IDIOT!!!!! I think you're the one that should be grounded, seriously.

 

[CALRepublic]

Ground the Q-400.....This thread is pissing me off so much I don't even want to read anymore... Thread starter, what airplane do you fly?? that bird ever been involved in an accident?? how about we ground that one as well........

Hey flyprd, what's your background and experience??? what do you fly and for how long?? if you think you're going to impress me because you went to purdue you're out of your f****ng mind........

 

[atrdriver]

Just so I get my facts straight, I should've said ATR 72. What did COEX have, 3 of them?
Atlantic Southeast Airlines, operated ATR-72 aircraft in areas where icing conditions were not common."

or

"After a period of mandatory grounding, American Eagle and Delta Connection permanently stopped using the plane on temperate routes."

What else would you like Alice?

For you to get your facts straight. After the boots were redesigned (extended back) there was nothing wrong with the ATR, and in fact it became the most tested airframe in icing conditions in FAA history. ASA operated them out of CVG for 2 winters, and I wouldn't say that isn't an area prone to icing, nor would I call it a temperate area.

 

[PURPLEHAZE21]

Sometimes....."Freedom Of Speech" is over rated....

 

[Metrojet]

Regardless of the aircraft you fly, here's a free course from NASA about icing. It might be a good idea for all of us to take it.

http://aircrafticing.grc.nasa.gov/courses_inflight.html#

Erlanger:

Thank you for that link - it looks very good - and everyone can learn from it - no matter what you fly.

Metrojet

 

[Publishers]

First, we do not even know if the boots and systems worked correctly.
Secondly, somewhere in reporting it mentioned that the crew was noticing this at 11,000 feet. We do not know whether they discussed any actions at this time.
Thirdly, how many times is it the aircraft? Not many.
This is sad but early judgment does not help.

 

[Paladin]

Just so I get my facts straight, I should've said ATR 72. What did COEX have, 3 of them?

How's this,
"In the years following this accident, AMR Corporation stopped using its American Eagle ATRs out of its northern hubs and moved them to their southern and Caribbean hubs in Dallas, Texas; Miami, Florida and San Juan, Puerto Rico to alleviate potential icing problems in the future. Other U.S. former ATR operators, particularly the SkyWest, Inc. subsidiary and Delta Connection operator Atlantic Southeast Airlines, operated ATR-72 aircraft in areas where icing conditions were not common."

or

"After a period of mandatory grounding, American Eagle and Delta Connection permanently stopped using the plane on temperate routes."

What else would you like Alice?

Still incorrect buddy...ASA operated the ATR-72 out of CVG to places like CAK and LEX not so many years ago. Ice isn't common in Akron?? Sure was when I lived there. You stated that the ATR was "KICKED OUT" up north. There is a big difference between being BANNED (i.e Kicked out) and VOLUNTARILY MOVED...albeit temporarily.

 

[AAsRedHeadedbro]

You two are like two bickering kids in the back seat. Give it a rest.

 

[NEDude]

And Airbusses...their composite tails snap off in light wake turbulence.

Refering to American flight 587.

The tail did not snap off of "light wake turbulence" The tail snapped off after the F/O, complying with American Airlines flawed training program, agressively used full scale deflections of the rudder to counter the wake turbulence encounter. Aircraft are not required to, nor are they designed to be able to withstand full scale rudder deflections at all speeds.

There has been long debate about whether Airbus or American is to blame here, but four years before the accident, the FAA, Boeing, McDonnell Douglas and Airbus sent a letter to American Airlines warning them that rudders should not be used abruptly to right a jet aircraft.

Additionally in 1997 after and incident with AA flight 903 in Miami, Airbus warned American that abrupt use of the rudder could lead to loss of aircraft control and aircraft damage.

The fact is that Airbus met the design criteria for an aircraft being certified, And American Airlines was warned multiple times by not only Airbus, but the FAA and other manufacturers that their training program was flawed. And if the FO did not apply rapid, full scale rudder deflections, in accordance with the flawed training program, there would have been no crash.